What is Rosen worth and to who?

[Daniel]

1 minute ago, Skins212689 said:

When have two 1st round QBs played for the same team while both were on Rookie contracts? 

I don't recall saying that they ever have.

But, a few years ago, the Titans had a rookie starting named Zach Mettenberger, which a lot of people thought was worth passing on QBs for, but they drafted Mariota, and kept Mettenberger.  Then there's the Seakawks, who drafted two QBs the same year, and kept both for a couple of seasons.

[SmittyBacall]

5 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

If he doesn't get them a 1st round pick, it will be proven his value was affected. He was a 1st round pick so anything less than that is less than the vaule they originally got him for.

His value would be affected but not for the reason you are claiming. Which I already tried to summarize:

4 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

So you wouldn't offer a first for Rosen because Arizona's leverage in negotiations is worsened by the fact they drafted or are planning to draft Murray?

What Arizona fetches for Rosen would be entirely dependent on what teams are willing to pay for Rosen as a football player in combination with the number of teams are involved in the sweepstakes. I don't think involving Kyler Murray hampers Arizona as much as you're claiming. I also don't think Arizona is forced to immediately offload Rosen for less than his value and could keep him for another year if his market isn't where Arizona wants it to be. Teams will always be desperate for QBs, and those teams typically pay a pretty penny to acquire those QBs.

[Skins212689]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I don't recall saying that they ever have.

But, a few years ago, the Titans had a rookie starting named Zach Mettenberger, which a lot of people thought was worth passing on QBs for, but they drafted Mariota, and kept Mettenberger.  Then there's the Seakawks, who drafted two QBs the same year, and kept both for a couple of seasons.

They weren't 1st round picks. Egos and loyalty can be affected in this case. You just told Rosen he was your guy last year. Now your looking to replace him already. How does he take that? How does Murray handle questions about Rosen? How do these 1st round drafted QBs work togther at a spot were only ONE is in Charge? 

[Daniel]

Just now, Skins212689 said:

They weren't 1st round picks. Egos and loyalty can be affected in this case. You just told Rosen he was your guy last year. Now your looking to replace him already. How does he take that? How does Murray handle questions about Rosen? How do these 1st round drafted QBs work togther at a spot were only ONE is in Charge? 

OK, one part at a time.  The last regime told Rosen he was their guy.  They're fired now.

You're acting as if there's never been a QB competition, or that these guys have never had to compete.  They've played football their whole lives at a high level, they can probably handle it.  If one can't, then he probably loses the QB competition and tanks his career.  This is called a bust.

And I don't think anyone is arguing that they'll be working together.  Pretty sure everyone on the forum is well aware that only one QB plays at a time.

[Skins212689]

30 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

His value would be affected but not for the reason you are claiming. Which I already tried to summarize:

What Arizona fetches for Rosen would be entirely dependent on what teams are willing to pay for Rosen as a football player in combination with the number of teams are involved in the sweepstakes. I don't think involving Kyler Murray hampers Arizona as much as you're claiming. I also don't think Arizona is forced to immediately offload Rosen for less than his value and could keep him for another year if his market isn't where Arizona wants it to be. Teams will always be desperate for QBs, and those teams typically pay a pretty penny to acquire those QBs.

Thats your opinion, but If Rosen is traded for anything less than a 1st round pick It will be a FACT his vaule was affected. They aren't getting the same value for witch they payed for him. I agree to disagree with your theory them drafting Murray is the reason they wouldn't get a 1st for Rosen. 

If talk was about them taking Bosa and wouldn't mind trading Rosen for one of the QBs of this draft I think than you could get a team to give up a 1st. More like them switching QBs. Say the Giants like Rosen more than any QB in this draft so they offered the #6 pick for Rosen. Now the Cardinals have both Bosa and chance to replace Rosen at #6. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Skins212689

[Skins212689]

6 minutes ago, Daniel said:

OK, one part at a time.  The last regime told Rosen he was their guy.  They're fired now.

You're acting as if there's never been a QB competition, or that these guys have never had to compete.  They've played football their whole lives at a high level, they can probably handle it.  If one can't, then he probably loses the QB competition and tanks his career.  This is called a bust.

And I don't think anyone is arguing that they'll be working together.  Pretty sure everyone on the forum is well aware that only one QB plays at a time.

I'm in DC were RG3 and Cousins were drafted in the same draft class and it didn't go soo well. Cousins was a 4th round pick, both of these guys are 1st round picks. Competition is fine but this IMO is not the type of competition you want in the lockeroom. The team needs to know who "Their Guy" is.

[Rockice_8]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

I don't recall saying that they ever have.

But, a few years ago, the Titans had a rookie starting named Zach Mettenberger, which a lot of people thought was worth passing on QBs for, but they drafted Mariota, and kept Mettenberger.  Then there's the Seakawks, who drafted two QBs the same year, and kept both for a couple of seasons.

Funny it turns out they were both worth passing on.

As for Rosen I could see an early 2nd getting it done.

[SmittyBacall]

3 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

Thats your opinion, but If Rosen is traded for anything less than a 1st round pick It will be a FACT his vaule was affected.

No one is disputing this! If he gets traded for anything more or less than the 10th pick his value has changed.

[DirtyDez]

11 hours ago, Daniel said:

OK, one part at a time.  The last regime told Rosen he was their guy.  They're fired now.

You're acting as if there's never been a QB competition, or that these guys have never had to compete.  They've played football their whole lives at a high level, they can probably handle it.  If one can't, then he probably loses the QB competition and tanks his career.  This is called a bust.

And I don't think anyone is arguing that they'll be working together.  Pretty sure everyone on the forum is well aware that only one QB plays at a time.

Imagine going into a QB competition with a guy that the new coach wanted at #1 and has had a relationship with for 5-6 years...  Neither the Cards nor Rosen (or his agent) would ever let it get to that point. 

[nextsuperstar1]

3 hours ago, DirtyDez said:

Imagine going into a QB competition with a guy that the new coach wanted at #1 and has had a relationship with for 5-6 years...  Neither the Cards nor Rosen (or his agent) would ever let it get to that point. 

Neither Rosen nor his agent really has any say in this matter...

[Skins212689]

4 hours ago, nextsuperstar1 said:

Neither Rosen nor his agent really has any say in this matter...

That's that Boss talk...someone who cares nothing about the employee but you just hired me last year and made all these promises to me....Where's your loyalty to the employee? But let him and his agent go out and demand a trade now Rosens the bad guy huh?....Rosen stayed loyal to his side of the deal, where's the Cardinals? 

These type of situations are why I'm for players getting as much money as they can when they can. Rememeber at the end of the day, It's a business. 

[naptownskinsfan]

Since the guaranteed money gets accelerated in this deal, the Redskins make the most sense for Rosen.  They currently have $27 million invested in the position for next year, and Rosen on a rookie deal without guaranteed money makes him ridiculously cheap for the next three years- the 5th year option would be all on the Redskins.  I like Rosen better than all QBs this year, and wouldn't mind rolling with him as a Redskins fan.  It's certainly better than trotting on retreads like McCoy and Keenum. 

[Daniel]

39 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

That's that Boss talk...someone who cares nothing about the employee but you just hired me last year and made all these promises to me....Where's your loyalty to the employee? But let him and his agent go out and demand a trade now Rosens the bad guy huh?....Rosen stayed loyal to his side of the deal, where's the Cardinals? 

These type of situations are why I'm for players getting as much money as they can when they can. Rememeber at the end of the day, It's a business. 

Or what?  He won't show up to team workouts?

If we were talking about a veteran pro bowler, yeah, or even a rookie at a position of need.  But the backup QB?  No.  Like nextsuperstar said, Rosen doesn't have any leverage.

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

Or what?  He won't show up to team workouts?

If we were talking about a veteran pro bowler, yeah, or even a rookie at a position of need.  But the backup QB?  No.  Like nextsuperstar said, Rosen doesn't have any leverage.

You ignored my messages in the post. Loyalty. How player's get bashed for wanting more money, demanding trades, speaking out in public about their GM or HC, ect....but this is what management puts them through....no relationship is a good relationship with out some type of trust and loyalty....players put thier bodies on the line and deserve every dollar they can make

Now if I'm Rosen or his agent and I know a team "Truly" wants me to be thier guy I want to be there or I want my client there...Go to management privatley if given the opportunity and ask about these rumors...Cool it's true the new coaching staff prefers Murray over Rosen...Rosen leverage is than letting it be known publicly he wants out while still is doing his job...the media gets a hold on that...people have to start answering questions...Management, Players, Fans, Owners,ect....I just see alot of unwanted drama to come if Murray and Rosen where to both still be Cardinals at the start of the season

Two 1st round QB's in back to back drafts on the same team is not gonna work.....How does management/the coaching staff/players answer all the questions to come? Please answer that? The "Media" and Rosen doing his job is his leverage.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Skins212689

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

 

Two 1st round QB's in back to back drafts on the same team is not gonna work.....How does management/the coaching staff/players answer all the questions to come? Please answer that? The "Media" and Rosen doing his job is his leverage.

The answer to that is no one cares.  "How they answer questions" could not be less important and has nothing to do with what the Cards will have to do or need to do.

And no, that's not leverage.