Washington Free Agency 2019

[Woz]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

I would that he could start most of our games this year. I cant argue that he hasn't had a few seasons with bad injtues but at the same.time he had 3 where he played all or all but 1 game.

So, it's kind of 50/50. Possibly last year bc he got hurt then this year he'll play 15 or

16 games.

Even you implicitly see the unlikelihood of that happening (and thus Smith improving from where he was). Yes, it's all conjecture but play. the. odds.

[Woz]

5 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

That's a good draft IMO, 4 of those players are starters in the NFL now and Grant has been a starter on and off in 2017 & 18 for Redskins and Colts.

If that's the metric, then 2015 improves as well (Reiter started for Kansas City and just re-signed).

Preston Smith >>>> Trent Murphy
Brandon Scherff == Morgan Moses (but tip the balance in Moses' favor due to draft position)
Crowder >> Breeland
Reiter > Grant

[Woz]

6 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

That's why I always argue with people when they try to defend Casserly as a great GM.

The short version is that they haven't really had a consistently good GM since Beatherd left.

However, Allen has done more to poison the fanbase than any of the guys who have wear the hat.

[turtle28]

The Redskins will work out Jake Fisher as a TE

 

Fisher is on a quest of trying to transition from OT to TE. He’s down to 285 lbs, and could be a good blocking TE.

 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/20/washington-will-work-out-jake-fisher/ via @ProFootballTalk 

Fisher has his weight down to 285 pounds in his attempt to make the transition to tight end. He played tight end in high school and lined up as a blocking tight end and H-back in some situations in Cincinnati, catching two passes for 43 yards.

 

[turtle28]

1 minute ago, Woz said:

The short version is that they haven't really had a consistently good GM since Beatherd left.

However, Allen has done more to poison the fanbase than any of the guys who have wear the hat.

Fo sho

[lavar703]

8 minutes ago, Woz said:

The short version is that they haven't really had a consistently good GM since Beatherd left.

However, Allen has done more to poison the fanbase than any of the guys who have wear the hat.

It’s more because Allen insults the fanbase. The McCloughan thing basically turned him into Dr. Evil. He could never win Redskins fans back. 

[Woz]

16 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

It’s more because Allen insults the fanbase. The McCloughan thing basically turned him into Dr. Evil. He could never win Redskins fans back. 

It's not just that, though. It was setting Doug Williams as the GM and then making deals behind his back. It's the apparent setting Gruden to be a fall guy if 2019 goes as badly as it looks it will.

[turtle28]

35 minutes ago, Woz said:

If that's the metric, then 2015 improves as well (Reiter started for Kansas City and just re-signed).

Preston Smith >>>> Trent Murphy
Brandon Scherff == Morgan Moses (but tip the balance in Moses' favor due to draft position)
Crowder >> Breeland
Reiter > Grant

The difference is that the 2014 draft we didn’t have a 1st round pick bc of the RG3 trade.

If we had had our 1st round pick and drafted say Khalil Mack then, that would’ve been a better draft.

I think you have to put that in perspective when comparing those two drafts so, to me the 2014 draft was more impressive bc we didn’t have a 1st round pick.

I still hate that we traded down in the 2014 draft and passed on Stephon Tuitt.

[MKnight82]

19 minutes ago, Woz said:

It's not just that, though. It was setting Doug Williams as the GM and then making deals behind his back. It's the apparent setting Gruden to be a fall guy if 2019 goes as badly as it looks it will.

My god its so much more than this.  The Kurt thing.  Leaking drinking rumors about McCloughan before he got fired.  Making Doug Williams go out and do interviews when they signed Reuben Foster.  Not doing interviews with reporters for like 2 years.  

[Woz]

26 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

My god its so much more than this.  The Kurt thing.  Leaking drinking rumors about McCloughan before he got fired.  Making Doug Williams go out and do interviews when they signed Reuben Foster.  Not doing interviews with reporters for like 2 years.  

I knew I was forgetting a lot ... just trying to give more examples. But please add to the list.

He's got a lot to apologize for.

[Woz]

44 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

The difference is that the 2014 draft we didn’t have a 1st round pick bc of the RG3 trade.

If we had had our 1st round pick and drafted say Khalil Mack then, that would’ve been a better draft.

I think you have to put that in perspective when comparing those two drafts so, to me the 2014 draft was more impressive bc we didn’t have a 1st round pick.

I still hate that we traded down in the 2014 draft and passed on Stephon Tuitt.

The goalposts, they are moving. However:

1. The draft class is what the draft class is. If you want to compare draft classes, you have to meet them where they are.
2. Allen was here for the RG3 trade. While he was not the top dog, he was involved.
3. We could have just as easily drafted Blake Bortles (the only way the 1st is here is there is if they didn't trade for Griffin).

[turtle28]

14 minutes ago, Woz said:

The goalposts, they are moving. However:

1. The draft class is what the draft class is. If you want to compare draft classes, you have to meet them where they are.
2. Allen was here for the RG3 trade. While he was not the top dog, he was involved.
3. We could have just as easily drafted Blake Bortles (the only way the 1st is here is there is if they didn't trade for Griffin).

I’m not really moving the goal posts. I’m just saying the 2014 was impressive for not having a 1st round pick.

Sorry, I just wasn’t that impressed with the 2015 draft. Almost every selection I didn’t agree with in that draft except for Crowder, Kouandjio, Spaight, Jarrett and Spencer and honestly, that hasn’t changed 4 years later. Of course, I was wrong on all of those but Crowder in the end. 😂 

I’d still take Leonard Williams over Scherff and as I said before I’d take Goldman, Kendrick’s or McKinney over PSmith. Getting LWill & Goldman in round 1 & 2 would’ve been awesome and would’ve set our DL up to be as good in 2015 as it finally turned out to be in 2019, 4 years later.

In round 3 I would’ve selected Tyler Lockett and if Diggs was there in round 4, I’d have a hard time passing on him bc he was by far the BPA at that point.

[minutemancl]

5 hours ago, Woz said:

Okay ... sounds a little "faith, trust, and pixie-dust!"ish(*) to me, but to each their own.

Personally, I'm going to look at two separate coaching staffs that couldn't get him to do it, and Giants' fans I know and trust who watched him for four years saying he has no heart/willingness to put in the effort.

No, we don't, but where would you put your personal money on this bet? That it works out or that this is a bust?

@minutemancl commented in the News thread about this that Flowers has little-to-no punch and that he could not think of any guard successful at this level with no punch. Again, he's watched the guy for four years; I figure I'll give his experience and insight a little credence.

Except as I've said, I don't think he even gives you depth/competition.

As others have said, Flowers is trading off the fact that he was a former first round pick. If he was a second round pick, he wouldn't be getting $4M. Heck, he might be out of the league at this point given his lack of effort.

I'm on board with that ... except then they tore up an extra draft pick for no reason.

That's my whole concern with these two signings: they will contribute nothing to the team (may not even make the roster), but in the process of signing them (when there was no little-to-no market for either of them) you hurt the franchise in the longer term. It's not even short-term thinking, but making-a-move-to-make-a-move thinking. It is a net negative.

 

 

(*) Of the core, Team Fawn, but of any one, Team Zarina. However, Gruff FTW!

To all Washington fans here: look, I understand the temptation to put even a small sliver of hope in Flowers because of his age, size, and potential. Don't. The guy hasn't figured it out and has no desire to figure it out. His technique is absolute garbage and has not improved since he's entered the league. 

As for this transition to guard, this is a topic Giants fans have been talking about for years. There is no reason to believe it will work out at all. For a much more technical explanation as to why, besides his Ricky Bobby style hand usage, read what Duke Manyweather said about this exact topic a few years ago: https://insidefootball.com/what-to-do-with-new-york-giants-left-tackle-ereck-flowers/

[Woz]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

I’m not really moving the goal posts. I’m just saying the 2014 was impressive for not having a 1st round pick.

Sorry, I just wasn’t that impressed with the 2015 draft. Almost every selection I didn’t agree with in that draft except for Crowder, Kouandjio, Spaight, Jarrett and Spencer and honestly, that hasn’t changed 4 years later. Of course, I was wrong on all of those but Crowder in the end. 😂 

I’d still take Leonard Williams over Scherff and as I said before I’d take Goldman, Kendrick’s or McKinney over PSmith. Getting LWill & Goldman in round 1 & 2 would’ve been awesome and would’ve set our DL up to be as good in 2015 as it finally turned out to be in 2019, 4 years later.

In round 3 I would’ve selected Tyler Lockett and if Diggs was there in round 4, I’d have a hard time passing on him bc he was by far the BPA at that point.

Oh, we're doing what we could have done? In that case, the 2014 draft was horrible when it could have been:

• 2nd = WR Davante Adams
• 3rd = OT Morgan Moses
• 3rd = OG Trai Turner
• 4th = RB Devonta Freeman
• 5th = LB Telvin Smith
• 6th = CB E.J. Gaines
• 7th = CB Malcolm Butler
• 7th = OT Charles Leno or S Adrian Phillips

Look at all those mistakes! (cheap, isn't it?)

 

For the record, I was right with you there in ripping out my hair when they went with Scherff over Williams, and I agree with you with Kendricks over Smith. At the same time, Washington did get value out of that draft, which is not something they can say for many of the other drafts over the past 25 years. To classify it as the worst in 25 years is actively looking for reasons to denigrate it. Could they have done something different? Sure. Should they? For some of those picks, absolutely (Matt Jones is still a mystifying pick). But to write the entire draft off because it didn't meet what you wanted right then without considering the context of the team at the time and what they were going for is ... I don't even know if I have a word.

And that's the one big thing that you are seemingly writing off: for all of his "mistakes" in that draft, McCloughan seemingly had a plan for what the team was to look like. He was looking for not only specific "football players" but was building the entire roster towards something. That is also something that has been missing for most of the past 25 years (only exception was arguably Schottenheimer ... Gibbs dealt away his drafts too often).

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

Oh, we're doing what we could have done? In that case, the 2014 draft was horrible when it could have been:

• 2nd = WR Davante Adams
• 3rd = OT Morgan Moses
• 3rd = OG Trai Turner
• 4th = RB Devonta Freeman
• 5th = LB Telvin Smith
• 6th = CB E.J. Gaines
• 7th = CB Malcolm Butler
• 7th = OT Charles Leno or S Adrian Phillips

Look at all those mistakes! (cheap, isn't it?)

 

For the record, I was right with you there in ripping out my hair when they went with Scherff over Williams, and I agree with you with Kendricks over Smith. At the same time, Washington did get value out of that draft, which is not something they can say for many of the other drafts over the past 25 years. To classify it as the worst in 25 years is actively looking for reasons to denigrate it. Could they have done something different? Sure. Should they? For some of those picks, absolutely (Matt Jones is still a mystifying pick). But to write the entire draft off because it didn't meet what you wanted right then without considering the context of the team at the time and what they were going for is ... I don't even know if I have a word.

And that's the one big thing that you are seemingly writing off: for all of his "mistakes" in that draft, McCloughan seemingly had a plan for what the team was to look like. He was looking for not only specific "football players" but was building the entire roster towards something. That is also something that has been missing for most of the past 25 years (only exception was arguably Schottenheimer ... Gibbs dealt away his drafts too often).

No, we’re  doing what I would’ve done on draft day. I had these opinions on draft day in 2015. This is not a “what we could have done.” Again, it’s what I would’ve done on draft day, aka essentially how Turtle28s 2015 draft would’ve looked. I remember especially wanting nothing to do with Preston’s Smith or Matt Jones - at least in round the rounds they were selected - in that draft. I felt we took Smith a round too high and Jones two rounds too high. 

I didn’t see Preston as a 3-4 OLB, I saw him as a 3-4 DE - same with Murphy.  Neither are Quick twitch athletes with good to great first steps/speed rushes. That’s why I wanted to put 20 pounds on both have them at 3-4 DE and not at 3-4 OLB. I thought we should’ve put weight on each of them the day we drafted them. 

I am actually totally shocked that Preston has developed into what he is today because I definitely didn’t see it at all at Miss. St. Instead of Matt Jones, I wanted Langford from Michigan St who went to the Bears, turns out neither of them worked out.