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1 minute ago, packfanfb said:

Let me state it another way that has nothing to do with Houston. Dee Ford IMO isn't the difference maker that makes me okay with giving him a huge deal PLUS giving up a high draft pick. I was fine doing it with Mack because he's Khalil Mack. I'm fine signing Dee Ford to an expensive deal, but not if it requires giving up a high pick. He's not that type of player for me. I'd rather just sign Z. Smith and/or Barr, keep my pick, and draft an EDGE at 12. 

Fair enough! 

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I'll say this, I'd much rather sign him to that deal AND give up the 2nd rounder than pretend Z Smith or Shaq Barrett are that good and offer them the massive inflated rate they'll see in the market.

If we want a SB, a guy like Ford is who we need. Adding him and still having 2 firsts instantly gets us back in the conversation. 

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1 hour ago, Nick_gb said:

I think his point may be slightly going over your head. Its always worrisome when a player only shows out right before pay day and thats exactly what happened with Dee Ford.

Prior to his contract year he was widely viewed as a bust. That's worrisome and always concerning for a buying team. Its one thing to give up money to that player and its another thing to give draft capital and a big contract to that player. 

 

 

Yep, I'm with you. Look no further than Nick Perry. I don't think it's a coincidence that he's been completely useless except the 1 year that was his contract year.

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37 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I'll say this, I'd much rather sign him to that deal AND give up the 2nd rounder than pretend Z Smith or Shaq Barrett are that good and offer them the massive inflated rate they'll see in the market.

If we want a SB, a guy like Ford is who we need. Adding him and still having 2 firsts instantly gets us back in the conversation. 

Exactly. Either that or give Preston smith the 15+ million many are predicting he'll get.

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3 hours ago, Nick_gb said:

We aren't privileged to such knowledge being a small market team and only having Americas finest cheese to offer. 

Coincidentally, my father is in Green Bay right now judging the United States Championship Cheese Contest.  :D

https://www.uschampioncheese.org/

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3 hours ago, packfanfb said:

Houston is less risk. Low value pick in exchange for a veteran EDGE who can still get after it, yet without the guaranteed money hanging over our head. $15 mil for 2019 is steep but manageable and not much more (if any) versus what Houston would get on the open market anyways. The $17 mil for 2020 can always be restructured or extended or you can just cut him. 

With Ford, you're giving up a premium pick plus you're having to make a huge commitment to him financially. He's going to command a top EDGE deal over 4-5 years and if it doesn't work out, you're dealing with a situation worse than Nick Perry. Personally, I'm not as high on Ford as others and I see a guy who had a huge year statistically in a contract year. I know he had 10 sacks in 2016 but other than that, it's been average for him.  If I have to take that kind of risk with a player like Ford, I'd rather not have to give up a 2nd round pick in the process. 

Houston is expensive, 30, and hasn’t played 16 games in 4 years. He is already worth less than his contract.

A second is a nice pick, not a future mortgage like Mack would have been. Ford is a nice 27 year old player. We also have cap space. If you want rushers, you need to overpay or get lucky. 

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18 hours ago, Golfman said:

Did you see what Houston's on the books for regarding salary/comp going into this season and next? 33 million that we'd have to shell out for the guy plus a pick? Definition of insanity right there. 

I'd part with a 2nd and pay Ford. He's a known commodity in the NFL and we were going to give up 2 - 1st and pay Kalil Mack 20+ a year. I"m all in on that deal. Quiet honestly, I'd throw in Nick Perry who will be a better fit in a 4-3 defense KC wants to play. 

 

KC needs to dump salary.  Adding Perry to it should make the trade worse for them, not better.  And then GB actually has to eat some money when Perry leaves via the guarantees in his contract.  So one can argue that it actually inflates how much you are paying Houston.

The allure of Houston, to me, is the contract.  No dead money if we simply traded for him.  All those guarantees would still be on the books for KC.  GB would have an easy "out" and could re-negotiate the deal to make the cap hit less...if they wanted to.

Given what Graham got from the Eagles and given was is rumored that Flowers will get (17M/average), the Houston contract is not a bad one.  Sure you'd like him for less, but so would a lot of teams.

It's a tough one.  I'd prefer to draft the EDGE.  But I can see the value to Houston.

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Folks, I really think we can solve this EDGE issue with pick 12 instead of giving up a 2nd for a guy who cost his team a trip to the Superb Owl due to his being offsides. Plus, look at how Dee Ford stacked his sack numbers over the two years where he had more than 4 sacks. 3 against Denver at home last year with a rather soft schedule when it came to opposing OL's and QB's. 3 1/2 against an Andrew Luck-less Colts team in 2016 with a horrible OL. I don't trust him. Loved him as a prospect coming out, but he's flopped since. 

I'd rather be using that 2nd round pick on Jerry Tillery if he's still on the board...

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Posted (edited)

Good pass rushers just don't hit the open market so you have to wonder why KC is willing to let him go.  IMO this is a large red flag.   I wouldn't give up a valuable draft pick for him.   Now, if he was a UFA then I'd be more interested.

Edited by Pugger

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KC needs to pay Hill and Chris Jones next year.  While keeping some money out there to eventually pay Mahomes.

I see KC paying one or the other, Houston or Ford.

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1 hour ago, Pugger said:

Good pass rushers just don't hit the open market so you have to wonder why KC is willing to let him go.  IMO this is a large red flag.   I wouldn't give up a valuable draft pick for him.   Now, if he was a UFA then I'd be more interested.

We've got a new coach on staff, linebackers coach Mike Smith, that knows both of those KC guys very well .. I think the Packers will be able to make an educated assessment of each player.  

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21 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

He was a contract year guy. I've also heard Chief fans aren't that high on him. That's worrisome.

Living in KC and being somewhat of a Chiefs fan as well. Ford was viewed almost in the same light as we view Nick Perry before this year. Often injured with only one year of decent production. He was also viewed as a one-trick pony being only a speed rusher. This year, he seemed to gain some muscle and develop some power moves which was nice to see. There was also concern that he kind of faded towards the end of the season( could be from being over-used) and possibly balled out because it was a contract year. 

I like Dee Ford and like that he gained some power but I wouldn't be a fan of signing him to a huge contract and even worse trading a 2nd round pick to sign him to a large contract. 

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2 hours ago, Joe said:

Folks, I really think we can solve this EDGE issue with pick 12 instead of giving up a 2nd for a guy who cost his team a trip to the Superb Owl due to his being offsides. Plus, look at how Dee Ford stacked his sack numbers over the two years where he had more than 4 sacks. 3 against Denver at home last year with a rather soft schedule when it came to opposing OL's and QB's. 3 1/2 against an Andrew Luck-less Colts team in 2016 with a horrible OL. I don't trust him. Loved him as a prospect coming out, but he's flopped since. 

I'd rather be using that 2nd round pick on Jerry Tillery if he's still on the board...

Oh God, stop. That one play wasn't what lost it for KC.

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1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

KC needs to pay Hill and Chris Jones next year.  While keeping some money out there to eventually pay Mahomes.

I see KC paying one or the other, Houston or Ford.

Also drafted Speaks high last year too.

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1 hour ago, Arthur Penske said:

Oh God, stop. That one play wasn't what lost it for KC.

LOL I know. I just had to throw it in there because people make a big deal about it.

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