Dee Ford

[pacman5252]

1 minute ago, Striker said:

I don't think this is a good comparison of players to have. Barr specializes more in coverage (and maybe it's lack of opportunity) whereas we know/consistently see Ford rush. We DO need better coverage LBs, but I'd take the better pass rusher for the pick.

Barr had one of the best rush grades last year, just being a 4-3 olb he didn’t get a chance to do it as much as he could here. The argument for Barr is he’s played in a D which doesn’t fit his strengths which is valid,

[ccecilnosebleed]

42 minutes ago, Striker said:

I don't think this is a good comparison of players to have. Barr specializes more in coverage (and maybe it's lack of opportunity) whereas we know/consistently see Ford rush. We DO need better coverage LBs, but I'd take the better pass rusher for the pick.

It’s not about the direct comp - it’s about the fact that Barr is an example of player who might have a ceiling at actual OLB that is higher than where he is currently cast (which is darn good at obolb) - and - he would also hypothetically fit well inside if he had to move there. And Barr is a FA that allows you to keep your pick. Long term value.

 

[KManX89]

9 hours ago, Reaper said:

I think this is a great chance for the packers to get a guy who is proven at the position. You can then cut perry and draft at 12 the BPA. It will likely be a pass rusher or perhaps you take Ferguson later either way you end up with two new guys at the position. One a proven vet who will command attention, the second should be able to work 1 on 1 and hopefully win enough to make it all worth while that with a safety or two signing will change this team entirely. And thats why you make this move.

 

Problem is, that 2nd round pick robs us the chance to draft a quality G, slot receiver or Safety, assuming we go TE and pass rusher with our top 2 picks. We could arguably use help at BOTH safety spots, let's not forget. 

While the idea of nabbing a potential game changer is enticing, that leaves us with our 3rd and 4th round picks to nab other pressing needs. These guys might just be projects who'll take time to adapt to the NFL whereas our 2nd could land a plug-and-play starter at one of these spots. I wouldn't be against it, but that loss of capital COULD hurt us long-term, especially for a guy coming off a contract year.

[MantyWrestler]

2 hours ago, KManX89 said:

Problem is, that 2nd round pick robs us the chance to draft a quality G, slot receiver or Safety, assuming we go TE and pass rusher with our top 2 picks. We could arguably use help at BOTH safety spots, let's not forget. 

While the idea of nabbing a potential game changer is enticing, that leaves us with our 3rd and 4th round picks to nab other pressing needs. These guys might just be projects who'll take time to adapt to the NFL whereas our 2nd could land a plug-and-play starter at one of these spots. I wouldn't be against it, but that loss of capital COULD hurt us long-term, especially for a guy coming off a contract year.

Not if you took a TE at 12 and a OG at 30. Just mixes the picks up that’s all

[packfanfb]

2 hours ago, KManX89 said:

Problem is, that 2nd round pick robs us the chance to draft a quality G, slot receiver or Safety, assuming we go TE and pass rusher with our top 2 picks. We could arguably use help at BOTH safety spots, let's not forget. 

While the idea of nabbing a potential game changer is enticing, that leaves us with our 3rd and 4th round picks to nab other pressing needs. These guys might just be projects who'll take time to adapt to the NFL whereas our 2nd could land a plug-and-play starter at one of these spots. I wouldn't be against it, but that loss of capital COULD hurt us long-term, especially for a guy coming off a contract year.

Or Quinton Rollins or Josh Jones 2.0. People are worried about Dee Ford not living up to a big contract yet arent considering the more likely scenario, given our recent history, that our 2nd round pick could be another dud.

[66fan]

9 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Part of it was also that Spriggs was likely drafted to be the LT.  Bakhtiari was average at the time, and entering into a contract season.  I know that I thought the proper move would be to let Bakhtiari walk and move on with Spriggs.  But Bakhtiari was really good from that point onward, and was re-signed.  So now we have bookend tackles, both under 30, and the odd man out is the 2nd round pick, who hasn't had many opportunities to play.  And to be real, Spriggs hasn't really made the most of the few opportunities that he has had.  He is kind of like Darryn Colledge but can't make the transition to guard.

I feel that we would have very athletic bookend tackles with Bakhtiari and Spriggs. If Bulaga’s knees could hold up with a move to right guard we could be set for the year at O-line and use 4th and 5th rounds for OL depth and development.

[KManX89]

10 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Or Quinton Rollins or Josh Jones 2.0. People are worried about Dee Ford not living up to a big contract yet arent considering the more likely scenario, given our recent history, that our 2nd round pick could be another dud.

Our 2nd could be used to nab Lindstrom or Risner, two plug-and-play guys who happen to fill a MAJOR need (protecting Rodg should be a top priority this year). After that, better hope McGovern or Jordan is there at 76 and they don't have the same day 1 starter potential as the other 2. We'd also have to settle on a project slot guy in the 4th round, we already have plenty of project WRs.

[packfanfb]

2 minutes ago, KManX89 said:

Our 2nd could be used to nab Lindstrom or Risner, two plug-and-play guys who happen to fill a MAJOR need (protecting Rodg should be a top priority this year). After that, better hope McGovern or Jordan is there at 76 and they don't have the upside as either of the former 2. We'd also have to settle on a project slot guy in the 4th round, we already have plenty of project WRs.

We have plenty of cap and draft capital, even after a Ford deal, to address our needs. We have two first round picks. If there was ever a year to trade our 2nd to land a top end player, this is it.

[rcon14]

13 hours ago, packfanfb said:

The problem associated with Spriggs has always been more about his draft position. Not only was he a 2nd rounder, but we moved up to land him, which of course, whether justified or not, comes with expectations. Presently, Spriggs has become a decent 6th man OT, no disagreement there, however, to date, has otherwise been closer to a "miss" given the expectations that came with his draft position. 

Yeah I think that's totally fair. The athleticism Spriggs has is still elite, but he has some strength and technique problems that have continued to persist. As a former 2nd rounder, you'd hope and expect more than a good swing-tackle, but I don't think we should let that color our picture of him too much. To be honest, there are probably 8-10 teams that would okay with him as a starting RT just because decent OL play is so hard to find.

[Donzo]

58 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Or Quinton Rollins or Josh Jones 2.0. People are worried about Dee Ford not living up to a big contract yet arent considering the more likely scenario, given our recent history, that our 2nd round pick could be another dud.

Or Nick Collins or Leroy Butler 2.0.

I don't know who thinks the 2nd round pick is a guaranteed good player, it is what it is; a quality asset.

I think what some people don't like, me included, is double dipping our assets (high draft pick and extreme salary cap expenditure) on a player that's been good two years in a five year career.

 

[incognito_man]

Did we draft this guy yet or what?

 

[pacman5252]

15 minutes ago, Donzo said:

Or Nick Collins or Leroy Butler 2.0.

I don't know who thinks the 2nd round pick is a guaranteed good player, it is what it is; a quality asset.

I think what some people don't like, me included, is double dipping our assets (high draft pick and extreme salary cap expenditure) on a player that's been good two years in a five year career.

 

2 of the last 3 years have been really good, one he missed time.

 

The issues the pro trade people have are;

1. that picks are no guarantees. If history repeats itself, half the edge prospects we are drooling over right now from just round 1 will bust and maybe 1 from round 2 pans out.

2.  Cap space is nice but FA options at pass rusher are pretty limited. The market for under 30 pass rushers is; Flowers, Barr, Z Smith, P Smith. None of which had ever had a double digit sack season. Ford has had 2.

3. We have extra ammo this year. A second is not 2 1sts like Mack would have been.

You can easily argue Ford could work our better than a double dip (Preston Smith and a second round edge)

[Donzo]

20 minutes ago, pacman5252 said:

2 of the last 3 years have been really good, one he missed time.

 

The issues the pro trade people have are;

1. that picks are no guarantees. If history repeats itself, half the edge prospects we are drooling over right now from just round 1 will bust and maybe 1 from round 2 pans out.

2.  Cap space is nice but FA options at pass rusher are pretty limited. The market for under 30 pass rushers is; Flowers, Barr, Z Smith, P Smith. None of which had ever had a double digit sack season. Ford has had 2.

3. We have extra ammo this year. A second is not 2 1sts like Mack would have been.

You can easily argue Ford could work our better than a double dip (Preston Smith and a second round edge)

Disregarding the value of 1st and 2nd round picks and cap space is a nonstarter, so I won't waste time on that... And, are Preston Smith and Dee Ford really comparable salary cap comps?

[Golfman]

17 minutes ago, Donzo said:

Disregarding the value of 1st and 2nd round picks and cap space is a nonstarter, so I won't waste time on that... And, are Preston Smith and Dee Ford really comparable salary cap comps?

Given the lack of EDGE rushers in this years free agency, I'll bet they are closer than you would think after Smith gets his contract. 

 

[MacReady]

Dee Ford is Nick Perry.  Just like every other available pass rusher this year.  It's baffling to me how quickly people throw away cap space and draft picks to get the exact same players just because they're on a different team. 

1.5 sacks as a rookie (literally everybody here would be calling him a bust)
4 sacks as a second year pro.
10 sacks as a third year pro.
2 sacks in his fourth year.
13 sacks in his contract year. 

Nick Perry:

2 sacks
4 sacks
3 sacks
3.5 sacks
11 sacks, interception

How people can't look at production versus contract years and see that magical boost players seem to get in their contract year is beyond me. 

Dee Ford is so painfully Nick Perry.  I've been trying to ignore this thread because I hate arguing with people who can't seem to see these very clear realities, but I couldn't let it go any longer. 

2016 when he got 10 sacks?  7.5 of those sacks came in three games. 

So we've got a bunch of people here willing to send a second round pick to get another Nick Perry/Clay Matthews contract on this team.  We haven't had those contracts taking up space long enough, so apparently people just want to remind themselves what it's like to overpay pass rushers just because they effing love overpaying pass rushers. 

It's not enough to pay 13-15 million, we have to give up a 2nd-4th round pick to do it.  Because some people convince themselves that it can't possibly backfire if we give up draft capital for them or something. 

This is all assuming we even ARE interested, which I doubt. 

Everybody throws our name in.  I don't think it's true.  The reports of the Packers having been interested in Brown when he was almost traded to the Bills?  Like 20 minutes later, there were 5 times the amount of stories saying we actually weren't interested. 

It's like... Literally the first question people should ask is, "Why are the Chiefs selling?" 

They've tagged him, he is a pass rusher, and now they're not going to keep him?  You think that's a good sign?  You think that's literally anything other than a bad sign?  It's a bad sign. 

Dee Ford is Kansas City's Nick Perry, and just because he has a different name and has played for a different team, you're all ready to throw draft picks at the Chiefs. 

My official stance is I do not want Dee Ford unless it is for a 4th round pick or lower and a short term (1/2 year) contract.  Otherwise, I'd just as soon take a risk on Perry having an up year.