indifference Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Tugboat said: The thing with Devin White is...he has the potential to be an absolutely stellar LBer. The athletic attributes are all there. The competitiveness seems to be there, and the physicality along with it. The question is...does he read the game like an elite LBer? That's where i get real tripped up. I just don't see it in his play. Can you put him in a different system where he can simplify what he's looking at and just use those physical gifts to the max? Maybe. I think you can almost certainly find a place for him in your LBer corps where he can play to his strengths. I just don't know if that's as the "anchor" and "green dot" guy that i'd want out of a 1st round LBer. Agreed all the way. I think he would have to be in a system that allows him to make one read and go. Simplify the scheme for him and dont make him have do too much. And for a guy regarded as a top 5 pick, why the hell would i want to invest into that? For that cost I rather go draft Oliver instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indifference Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 3 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: Roquan Smith and White both have some real serious flaws. Roquan gets murdered when he engaged a blocker. How does he succeed in the NFL then? Elite pacing and angles. But he certainly isn't flawless and the Oklahoma-UGA playoff game last year illuminated some of Smith's major flaws. I'm not saying he sucks at all, but he's got some serious flaws within his game. He makes up for it with the other things he does to avoid eating blocks though. White is not good with his pacing. He overruns things and isn't great when seeing misdirection plays coming at him. He's still an elite prospect, because of his ceiling and his ability to fix his mental flaws. He's a very young linebacker and hasn't had time to develop those instincts yet. He makes up for taking bad angles by being a freak of nature and ripping peoples faces off in the run game. He'll be fine despite a lack of refinement right now. By the way, I think Roquan's block shed ability was more concerning than White's mental game. White isn't a complete buffoon out there, it's just not a strength of his. It'd be unfair to crucify him for this, as I don't view it as a glaring weakness like some others have suggested. my thing is...some players dont ever develop those instincts. With more experience you should get a better feel for the game and have an understanding of route combinations and how an offense is trying to attack you. I feel like coaching can help to an extent but Im just not comfortable taking a guy like that top 5. Some guys never get it. LSU IMO just pumps out great athletes in the front 7 but I dont think any of those kids are smart high IQ players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, vegas492 said: I very much agree, which is why I wouldn't throw a fit if my team took him at #12. The physical tools are there and they are impressive. Can debate all day long about "position values", but this kid has top flight athletic traits for that position. I thought that Roquan last year had better instincts. But I prefer White because of that great lower body strength that he has. If White gets to Cincy in the draft, I don't see how they pass on him. And getting there is a huge "if". You're right, Roquan's best asset was his instincts IIRC. White has all of the tools to be elite IMO, he just needs the right position coach help him put it all together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 All I'll say is that I hope he "slips" to 11. Yes, he needs time to develop things, but we may be at the beginning of a minor overhaul and getting him puts a great athlete in the middle of the field where we have had Vontaze Burfict flanked by two JAGs for almost 15 years. And Burfict has been in there about 35% of that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlash Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 7 hours ago, vegas492 said: For every highlight he has there, there will be 10 other times in the game when he took the wrong steps or misread plays that led to longer gains. This whole thread, but this post in particular is a good example of prospect fatigue. A guy gets too much love from people, the masses get tired of reading it and need sensationalism and some heat and now all of the sudden he's going to give you 10x the negative plays that he gives you positive plays. That would describe a player that isn't even draftable. Yet, now somehow, that's Devin White. C'mon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 18 minutes ago, Jlash said: This whole thread, but this post in particular is a good example of prospect fatigue. A guy gets too much love from people, the masses get tired of reading it and need sensationalism and some heat and now all of the sudden he's going to give you 10x the negative plays that he gives you positive plays. That would describe a player that isn't even draftable. Yet, now somehow, that's Devin White. C'mon. Get over yourself already. I've watched quite a bit of White tape. If you would have read my post, I said I wouldn't pitch a fit if he were to be drafted by my team. My team picks #12. And I'll be surprised if he is even on the board at that time. Never said anything about negative plays. Did say that for every SportsCenter highlight he'd have, he'd have 10 times in the game where he took steps that led to longer plays. Not negative plays, longer plays. If you spent any time watching his tape, you'd see that too. He does not have elite instincts. His feet and eyes simply do not see plays quickly. He does have elite athletic traits. Those instincts can be taught. The kid is a human highlight reel when unblocked and even when blocked, if he sees it, he can shed blockers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 7 hours ago, indifference said: my thing is...some players dont ever develop those instincts. With more experience you should get a better feel for the game and have an understanding of route combinations and how an offense is trying to attack you. I feel like coaching can help to an extent but Im just not comfortable taking a guy like that top 5. Some guys never get it. LSU IMO just pumps out great athletes in the front 7 but I dont think any of those kids are smart high IQ players. You are right, some never do. White, though, has. I think he was recruited as a running back, and from what I saw, he got better every year. Personally? I don't feel like any off ball linebacker is worth taking that high. That being said, this kid has very special physical traits. For whoever that drafts him, they are going to love his speed, power and tenacity. He will pop on film. He plays with enthusiasm, like he loves the game. Teammates should love that. My bias against him isn't anything physical, little mental and I just don't like taking non-premium positions that high. Whoever does value Off Ball Linebackers that high will love getting this kid, just like the Bears are loving Roquan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Smith blows him away a prospect? How? White just ran a blazing 40 for a thumper LB who can bring it and is very strong and powerful. Sure might not have the quickness Smith has to some degree but is strong at the point of attack and better at getting off blocks. To decide between the two give me White over Smith all day long, he has more upside I feel. Smith benefited from being surrounded by so much talent in Chicago last year and a DL that kept him pretty clean. PS he did not play with a great DL that often at LSU if ever. So he was rarely clean and free to the ball unlike many Alabama lLBs are much less Georgia. Get him protected with a good DL he would be able to do a lot more potentially. The guy had two 120+ tackle seasons as a SOPH and JR, yeah he can get to the football and make plays, double digits tackles for loss each year as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 hours ago, vegas492 said: Get over yourself already. I've watched quite a bit of White tape. If you would have read my post, I said I wouldn't pitch a fit if he were to be drafted by my team. My team picks #12. And I'll be surprised if he is even on the board at that time. Never said anything about negative plays. Did say that for every SportsCenter highlight he'd have, he'd have 10 times in the game where he took steps that led to longer plays. Not negative plays, longer plays. If you spent any time watching his tape, you'd see that too. He does not have elite instincts. His feet and eyes simply do not see plays quickly. He does have elite athletic traits. Those instincts can be taught. The kid is a human highlight reel when unblocked and even when blocked, if he sees it, he can shed blockers. Chart it then and back up your claim because it’s a fallacy. @Jlash is right. There is so much over thinking on White going on because of the fatigue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Is the Roquan Smith you all are talking about somebody else than the dude the Bears drafted eighth last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indifference Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 14 hours ago, Ozzy said: Smith blows him away a prospect? How? White just ran a blazing 40 for a thumper LB who can bring it and is very strong and powerful. Sure might not have the quickness Smith has to some degree but is strong at the point of attack and better at getting off blocks. To decide between the two give me White over Smith all day long, he has more upside I feel. Smith benefited from being surrounded by so much talent in Chicago last year and a DL that kept him pretty clean. PS he did not play with a great DL that often at LSU if ever. So he was rarely clean and free to the ball unlike many Alabama lLBs are much less Georgia. Get him protected with a good DL he would be able to do a lot more potentially. The guy had two 120+ tackle seasons as a SOPH and JR, yeah he can get to the football and make plays, double digits tackles for loss each year as well. Smith is much much much better in coverage. Its not even close in that aspect. All LSU did was use bracket coverage for opposing teams running backs. And in today’s passing league, I value that more than a run stuffing downhill backer. Give me Smith who can cover like a safety with his range and still make plays in pursuit against the run. Granted he needs a good DL but that’s also because he is what 10-15 pounds lighter? not expecting backers that arent 240-250 to be shedding at the POA and if they are then the defense is in trouble anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, indifference said: Smith is much much much better in coverage. Its not even close in that aspect. All LSU did was use bracket coverage for opposing teams running backs. And in today’s passing league, I value that more than a run stuffing downhill backer. Give me Smith who can cover like a safety with his range and still make plays in pursuit against the run. Granted he needs a good DL but that’s also because he is what 10-15 pounds lighter? not expecting backers that arent 240-250 to be shedding at the POA and if they are then the defense is in trouble anyway. Smith came in one pound lighter than White. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indifference Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Counselor said: Smith came in one pound lighter than White. ive read that his playing weight was much less than what he weighed in at the combine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, Counselor said: Smith came in one pound lighter than White. Either way he was far less physical taking on blockers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Either way he was far less physical taking on blockers. I know this I’m just pointing out a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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