Rockcity2 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Sllim Pickens said: Full circle...... Bill Belichik. And that's what I said.. but they still had "troubled players" Lions imo need to take more chances in that regard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: A more in depth answer, we don't need rings, but need to have some consistency as a winning team. I'd like Stafford to be more of a leader and run the team, sort of like Brady. He doesn't seem to let people screw around much and is part of that culture. We don't have great leaders from what I have seen. Our best players have all been humble, quiet, lead by example guys. Those are the kind that don't do well with headcases/problem kids. But it all boils down to a coach who can make guys fit in his system, which gives him the power to say shape up or ship out. If Josh Gordon wants to come win a championship, he can, but when he screws up, he is out. And they replace them with other peoples trash in Patterson, or throw to the RBs more. Coaching.. and far as i know gordon isnt cut.. one of the best things they do imo is fa pick ups or getting good players with late rd picks. I bet they would of picked up hunt if they didn't draft a guy bet they would of picked up foster if they weren't set there.. Gotta risk it to get the biscuit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 17 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said: And that's what I said.. but they still had "troubled players" Lions imo need to take more chances in that regard Exactly to Slims point, Bellichick is the guy that makes the Patriots different. 1) The Championships: When you have won as much as they have, they have a LOT more room to take chances, make mistakes and have a down year without having to worry about a regime change. Most coaches get about 3 years to implement their plan before the GM and/or ownership decide to move on. We've seen situations where it has been less than this but this is what you're typically looking at. When you've won as much as the Pats have they can take chances on those troubled guys because ownership has faith that they're making the right move more often than not. Players want two things - 1) to win and 2) to get paid. Most of these guys have made more money than they ever would or ever had and come from competitive backgrounds. It's a big deal when you have a chance to go to a team with a winning pedigree, you expect a chance to finish off your career potentially with a ring (or several). These guys will try to be on their best behavior in order to remain a part of that group. A lot of those guys also have come from a different situation and understand that it's a red flag if the Pats get rid of you for non-football reasons. 2) Player Management: Bellichick is one of the best at getting the most out of his players. They're able to identify traits that will work in their scheme and put guys in places in order to be successful. There are TONS of guys that have left the Patriots and been less successful on their new teams. A lot of those guys were paid big money. Bellichick has earned his reputation as one of, if not the best, coach/GM of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 And it's like I said they won these titles with those guys let's not act like this is all after the fact... Are coach can't cut guys?.. players either want a job or they dont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 18 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said: And it's like I said they won these titles with those guys let's not act like this is all after the fact... Are coach can't cut guys?.. players either want a job or they dont By the time they made the Randy Moss trade, they already had 3 titles in the Bellichick era. Coaches are expected to win games. Players don't have to love their coach. It becomes a problem when players don't want to play for said coach and they aren't winning. Patricia and Quinn don't have the same amount of rope that Bellichick does. Quinn fired a coach with a winning record to replace him with MP. If this move backfires, they're both gone. MP and BQ can cut players (this seems obvious) but they don't have the established culture to bring in a guy like an Antonio Brown and make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: By the time they made the Randy Moss trade, they already had 3 titles in the Bellichick era. Coaches are expected to win games. Players don't have to love their coach. It becomes a problem when players don't want to play for said coach and they aren't winning. Patricia and Quinn don't have the same amount of rope that Bellichick does. Quinn fired a coach with a winning record to replace him with MP. If this move backfires, they're both gone. MP and BQ can cut players (this seems obvious) but they don't have the established culture to bring in a guy like an Antonio Brown and make it work. But the raiders do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said: But the raiders do... Just because a team makes a move doesn't mean it's the right one or will work out. The Raiders took a huge risk. They have a ton of draft capital and got it done at a reduced cost. Gruden has a 10 year contract so he has the clout to make a move like that. If Carr is more the QB he has been lately, AB could throw a tantrum and really put that team into a bad spot. If Carr looks more like he did earlier in his career, this move could pay off big time for them. This is a significant year for the Lions. We had a big step back last season going from 9-7 to 6 -10. If we have another season like that, the rope is going to be very very short in 2020. If they have a slow start again in 2020 then we'll be looking at a mid-season firing of HC and GM and en-route to a rebuild. If the Raiders take that same position, they'll be paying Gruden like $100M to go back to TV. That isn't going to happen, at least not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: Just because a team makes a move doesn't mean it's the right one or will work out. The Raiders took a huge risk. They have a ton of draft capital and got it done at a reduced cost. Gruden has a 10 year contract so he has the clout to make a move like that. If Carr is more the QB he has been lately, AB could throw a tantrum and really put that team into a bad spot. If Carr looks more like he did earlier in his career, this move could pay off big time for them. This is a significant year for the Lions. We had a big step back last season going from 9-7 to 6 -10. If we have another season like that, the rope is going to be very very short in 2020. If they have a slow start again in 2020 then we'll be looking at a mid-season firing of HC and GM and en-route to a rebuild. If the Raiders take that same position, they'll be paying Gruden like $100M to go back to TV. That isn't going to happen, at least not yet. You gotta take some risks man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said: You gotta take some risks man Calculated risks, sure. They aren't in a position to take a wild risk, going for broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: Calculated risks, sure. They aren't in a position to take a wild risk, going for broke. Going for broke on who exactly? If your talking about brown I feel he wasn't an option bc of the money and flowers anyway Plus he's shown his colors.. What kinda category would you hunt in.. going for broke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said: Going for broke on who exactly? If your talking about brown I feel he wasn't an option bc of the money and flowers anyway Plus he's shown his colors.. What kinda category would you hunt in.. going for broke? Hunt would be a calculated risk if you're ok with a) his character (if you figure that this is something he can get over and not repeat) b) the blowback from the general public. It's a low risk, high reward move if you're good with those two things. He's not far removed from being the league's rushing leader and the contract was minimal. If he hits, you have one of the best RB's in the game on the cheap. If he fails, you can cut him for nothing. You've also given up absolutely nothing for him in draft capital. With Brown, the contract is big. That's what - $15M? He's also a bit older (in his 30's). You also have to give up some draft capital. Not as much as it should have been... but it's still something. The Colts and the Jets both had a TON of cap space and could have made the move. The contract wasn't a factor for them. They decided against making the trade. That has to count for something. It could work out really well for the Raiders. It could also blow up in their face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFL_Fan Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 god i am so glad Rockcity and Karnage aren't in charge of anything to do with this team lmao....they would be shipped to London or Mexico in no time....lmao at the Antonio Brown comment...I'd rather Pettis off the 49ers haha....shoot even Ryan Switzer...not some little guy with big numbers off a sweet offense....aand hes old...and hes overpaid...and he is a drama king...im good just based off the drama king...only Calvin was worth paying tht much...ONLY cause he wass drafted here and it was like a family bond....gotta pay your legends...or the fans would hate them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehardlionfan Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 12 hours ago, NFL_Fan said: god i am so glad Rockcity and Karnage aren't in charge of anything to do with this team lmao....they would be shipped to London or Mexico in no time....lmao at the Antonio Brown comment...I'd rather Pettis off the 49ers haha....shoot even Ryan Switzer...not some little guy with big numbers off a sweet offense....aand hes old...and hes overpaid...and he is a drama king...im good just based off the drama king...only Calvin was worth paying tht much...ONLY cause he wass drafted here and it was like a family bond....gotta pay your legends...or the fans would hate them... CJ was in a different category. CJ gave it his all, was productive, played through injury. CJ could carry an offence. CJ was a fan favourite and sold tickets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 12 hours ago, NFL_Fan said: god i am so glad Rockcity and Karnage aren't in charge of anything to do with this team lmao....they would be shipped to London or Mexico in no time....lmao at the Antonio Brown comment...I'd rather Pettis off the 49ers haha....shoot even Ryan Switzer...not some little guy with big numbers off a sweet offense....aand hes old...and hes overpaid...and he is a drama king...im good just based off the drama king...only Calvin was worth paying tht much...ONLY cause he wass drafted here and it was like a family bond....gotta pay your legends...or the fans would hate them... Brown has been the best WR in the NFL for several years now.... I still wouldn't have made that move myself. Not sure what else you're getting at. Calvin was paid what he was paid a) because he came in before the whole rookie salary cap deal and b) he was a generational player at a key position that you could build an offense around. The Lions should be blamed as an organization for wasting his talent and not putting the right pieces around him. It's not like they didn't try but results do matter. Either way, not sure what makes you think that anyone is getting shipped off to London or Mexico. However, if I did work for an NFL team and wound up in London.. there are worse places to wind up and get paid well to do something you love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehardlionfan Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 Bill Bellichick is the greatest football mind in NFL history. Not just the game but all the intangibles. He knows how to select individuals that mentally and emotionally click. Each year he fields a competent team that plays for each other. Everyone talks about communication but he seems to have the ability to communicate so his audience comprehends. I hate the Patriots but I have to give him his due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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