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taylor made

Post Keenum Mock Draft

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1 minute ago, e16bball said:

Leaving out guys who obviously won’t be there (Bosa, Josh Allen, and Quinnen particularly), if I’m making a wish list...

1. Montez Sweat

2. Devin White

3. Trade Down

4. Devin Bush

5. Brian Burns

6. Rashan Gary / Clelin Ferrell

7. Greedy Williams

8. Deandre Baker

9. Various OL to start at OG and shift to OT

10. Various WRs

You would trade down rather than draft Bush, Burns, Gary, Ferrell, Greedy Williams, Baker, Jonah Williams, Ford or the top WR on the board at 15?

I think if take the BPA I had on my board rather than risk the chance of missing on them.

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2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

You would trade down rather than draft Bush, Burns, Gary, Ferrell, Greedy Williams, Baker, Jonah Williams, Ford or the top WR on the board at 15?

I think if take the BPA I had on my board rather than risk the chance of missing on them.

The question is are teams looking to trade up? Yes with those guys still on the board I would look to trade down. My targets are Baker, Williams, Ford, and Burns. If I can get a extra 2nd round pick plus get one of those guys I'm happy. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

The question is are teams looking to trade up? Yes with those guys still on the board I would look to trade down. My targets are Baker, Williams, Ford, and Burns. If I can get a extra 2nd round pick plus get one of those guys I'm happy. 

If you trade back 10 spots you might miss the players you want the most. I still think it makes sense to take BPA at 15. 

Trade downs generally don't work as much as fans think they do. Getting the best player in round 1 is more important than getting more picks most times. 

Edited by turtle28

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29 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Leaving out guys who obviously won’t be there (Bosa, Josh Allen, and Quinnen particularly), if I’m making a wish list...

1. Montez Sweat

2. Devin White

3. Trade Down

4. Devin Bush

5. Brian Burns

6. Rashan Gary / Clelin Ferrell

7. Greedy Williams

8. Deandre Baker

9. Various OL to start at OG and shift to OT

10. Various WRs

Yeah, I'm good with that. I might not be so quick to trade down, but I can see the logic.

Question: Byron Murphy in there at 9 or 10?

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2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

You would trade down rather than draft Bush, Burns, Gary, Ferrell, Greedy Williams, Baker, Jonah Williams, Ford or the top WR on the board at 15?

I think if take the BPA I had on my board rather than risk the chance of missing on them.

Yeah, I definitely would. I like lots of those players — I don’t love any of them, for various reasons. If it was possible, I’d rather move back into the 19-22 range, hopefully still be able to grab one of those guys, and pick up another mid-3rd in the process. I think that would really put us in the driver’s seat on Day 2 (with 4 picks), which is where I think the depth of this draft will really show up. 

If Bush and Burns weren’t undersized, I’d go with them over a trade down. But I think Bush would have some issues playing ILB behind a one-gapping 3-man front like ours, just in terms of having to take on blockers more than you’d really like to see a smaller guy have to. And I think Burns probably starts out as a situational pass-rusher until he bulks up enough to play 3 downs. 

If there was a WR that I really liked, that would be a good option too. But there isn’t. I think Metcalf will be the first WR taken, but I prefer his college teammate (who would absolutely be on my list to consider if we moved back into the mid-twenties). I like the idea of Hollywood Brown, but I can’t take an injured 170 pound WR in the middle of the first round. If I knew he was a legit 4.30-flat speed guy, maybe. But I don’t. 

 

To me, it’s a draft with a lot of potentially good players. But I don’t see a ton of potential superstars. In terms of true elite talents, I think there are probably only 3 in this draft (Bosa, Allen, and Quinnen). I think White is too good an athlete and too good a kid to pass on with our need at ILB and I think Sweat is too freakish an athlete with a lot of production to pass on given how important a pass-rusher would be for us. Everybody else has some warts and some red flags, so I’d rather pick up another valuable pick along with my rookie instead of forcing a pick at the top of the next tier just so I can get my favorite question mark. That’s just me though, I always like trading down and buying more lottery tickets.

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I think it’s all a moot point, because I’m not sure I see a guy teams would trade up for. Maybe a possible LT or one of the 4-3 DEs (Ferrell or Gary if he was still there)? Maybe Hockenson, I guess Pittsburgh might bite on him as an instant weapon to plug in and take some pressure of JuJu?

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18 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

If you trade back 10 spots you might miss the players you want the most. I still think it makes sense to take BPA at 15. 

Trade downs generally don't work as much as fans think they do. Getting the best player in round 1 is more important than getting more picks most times. 

5 guys I want are still there at 15, I willing to move down to 23 and gain a extra 2nd and bet one of my 5 guys are still there. Now if no teams are calling and I can't get my extra 2nd round pick, I'm taking the BPA. Think it's between Greedy and Baker at that point with Ford highly considered.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Woz said:

Question: Byron Murphy in there at 9 or 10?

He’d be in there around that ballpark. I have him below Greedy and Baker because I’m not sure he will be able to play outside in the NFL. Greedy has the size to control a lot of outside receivers and Baker is just a supremely gifted cover guy in my book.

Murphy kinda reminds me of Kendall Fuller actually — which is a good player, but a little limited in terms of high-end impact. Good short-area quickness, great instincts, obviously really good balls skills with all the INTs, tough enough to stick his nose in there. 

But a guy who may be just a slot CB (which Fuller himself has now sorta proved to be) isn’t nearly as high on the positional value chart for me. If he was still on the board in early round 2, maybe even very late round 1, I’d be all over him. 

EDIT: Now that I think about it a little more, I’d probably have Baker over Greedy for the Redskins. Just because we have Dunbar to tangle with the guys who would overwhelm Baker with sheer size and strength. I think Baker is the more natural pure cover guy, and I’d really like the fit with him and Dunbar over the next couple seasons. Baker could step in and play nickel for a year if they decided to keep Norman around. 

Edited by e16bball

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My thoughts on some of the names floating around - EDGE

Brian Burns - We'll be lucky if he is there at 15 in my opinion. He tested out of the world at the combine and he plays like Aldon Smith in my opinion. An Aldon Smith with character if you watch any of his interviews. He is my #1 EDGE prospect for the Redskins because he can actually play standing up unlike some of the other 1st round EDGE prospects. He is the total package and would fit in at ROLB. He weighed in at 249 lbs at the combine. Not worried about the weight. 

Montez Sweat - Sweat is a tough evaluation. He doesn't fit this team very well in a 3-4 so I'm not sure why everyone wants him here at ROLB. All I've seen him play with is his hand in the dirt. But I haven't watch all his tape. He tested out of this world at the combine but is he an athlete or a football player? He seems more of an athlete trying to play football to me. But then he does have great production. He reminds me of Vic Beasley and if you watch any of his interviews he has a calm demeanor which isn't really a positive. He's just too risky for my liking.

Jachai Polite - I don't think he's a first rounder after the combine. There might be something mentally wrong with this guy and that's a big red flag. I actually like his tape and he can play standing up which is nice but a lot of those guys on the Florida D-Line have looked good over the years and have been somewhat disappointing. i.e Dante Fowler,  Caleb Brantley, Jonathan Bullard, Dominique Easley. He is on my Do not Draft list.

Clerin Ferell - I wish he tested at the combine and he might be hiding some athletic concerns. He seems to have great character. Can he play standing up? I'm not sure what to think of him & I wouldn't touch him.

All in All, I think the EDGE class is overrated

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I get not drafting a wr if the talent doesn't match the value of the pick. That wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. But on the other hand not taking one because we've had bad luck in the past doesn't make any sense either. 

Detroit would have never drafted Calvin Johnson with that logic. The draft is a crapshoot anyways. That's why it's so fun to watch.

At the end of the day we need a little luck. Its going to happen sooner or later. Almost has to. Our first round picks haven't been to bad lately, it's our second rounder we have been completely whiffing on.

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14 hours ago, taylor made said:

My thoughts on some of the names floating around - EDGE

Brian Burns - We'll be lucky if he is there at 15 in my opinion. He tested out of the world at the combine and he plays like Aldon Smith in my opinion. An Aldon Smith with character if you watch any of his interviews. He is my #1 EDGE prospect for the Redskins because he can actually play standing up unlike some of the other 1st round EDGE prospects. He is the total package and would fit in at ROLB. He weighed in at 249 lbs at the combine. Not worried about the weight. 

Montez Sweat - Sweat is a tough evaluation. He doesn't fit this team very well in a 3-4 so I'm not sure why everyone wants him here at ROLB. All I've seen him play with is his hand in the dirt. But I haven't watch all his tape. He tested out of this world at the combine but is he an athlete or a football player? He seems more of an athlete trying to play football to me. But then he does have great production. He reminds me of Vic Beasley and if you watch any of his interviews he has a calm demeanor which isn't really a positive. He's just too risky for my liking.

Jachai Polite - I don't think he's a first rounder after the combine. There might be something mentally wrong with this guy and that's a big red flag. I actually like his tape and he can play standing up which is nice but a lot of those guys on the Florida D-Line have looked good over the years and have been somewhat disappointing. i.e Dante Fowler,  Caleb Brantley, Jonathan Bullard, Dominique Easley. He is on my Do not Draft list.

Clerin Ferell - I wish he tested at the combine and he might be hiding some athletic concerns. He seems to have great character. Can he play standing up? I'm not sure what to think of him & I wouldn't touch him.

All in All, I think the EDGE class is overrated

Brian Burns and Josh Allen are in a class of their own in my opinion. The rest are just blah. Sweat is probably going to be awesome in a 4-3 but yeah, he'd be wasted here. My current top 3 for pick 15 based on what I expect to be available

 

1.Cody Ford

2.Hollywood Brown

3.Drew Lock

 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, lavar703 said:

Brian Burns and Josh Allen are in a class of their own in my opinion. The rest are just blah. Sweat is probably going to be awesome in a 4-3 but yeah, he'd be wasted here. My current top 3 for pick 15 based on what I expect to be available

 

1.Cody Ford

2.Hollywood Brown

3.Drew Lock

 

 

Burns could definitely be a sleeper like LVE was last year!! I actually like Burns slightly more than Josh Allen. But they are neck and neck both great prospects.

I think all three of those guys you mention carry considerable risk if you draft them. And that's not the way I'd like to draft.

1. Cody Ford - He played a little left guard Sophmore year but most of his success came on the right side. He's not really an elite athlete like many thought he'd be & he's too short to play tackle. So I know the team needs a left guard badly but this draft just simply isn't loaded there unless you are going to project a Jonah Williams or Greg Little there. So I think the team likes more of a pulling left guard instead of a bowling ball type like Ford is. Maybe we can move Scherff to left guard. I don't know. So I think it is an issue of fit more than anything.

2. Hollywood Brown - It is hard not to like his tape but it was concerning that he came in at 166 lbs at the combine. And he's injured. So he reminds me a lot of the Christian Kirk situation last year who I also thought looked great on tape but he fell because of a mediocre combine and brittle bones. I would not be shocked at all to see Hollywood Brown prove me wrong. He has a great professional personality too despite his wild name and cousin. So like I said earlier its just a matter of risk to me and I'm not sure I risk it at #15 or even the second round honestly.

3. Drew Lock - Me and you are probably the biggest supporters of drafting a QB on this board and for good reason. I've cooled down a little on the QB train since we got Keenum but I'd love to draft Haskins still. And even trade up for him if lets say he slides to the Dolphins pick. Lock is a QB, who are by default risky, and he has some positives and negatives. He's just a risk to take in my opinion.

 

Edited by taylor made

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People do understand that most 3-4 OLBs in the NFL played 4-3 DE in college right?

It frankly doesn't matter. What matters is if the player is a good to great pass rusher and if they are athletic enough to play as a stand up edge rusher and sometimes drop into coverage rather than rush.

From what I've seen Sweat and Ferrell are athletic enough to do that. 

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1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

People do understand that most 3-4 OLBs in the NFL played 4-3 DE in college right?

Yes but some of them have tape of them standing up. I.e Von Miller

Of course it matters. Some players have a preference whether they play with their hand in the dirt or not. And some it doesn't matter and thrive. I.e. Ryan Kerrigan. How much of it matters is up for to debate. You are projecting a player's abilities into something they haven't done in college to the NFL. And that's risk to me. Show me the tape of Montez doing this. I haven't watched him that much so I might be missing it.

Was Preston Smith athletic enough to play standing up? He was an elite athlete. But he wasn't a natural at standing up and he became what he was. Pretty average.

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5 hours ago, taylor made said:

Yes but some of them have tape of them standing up. I.e Von Miller

Of course it matters. Some players have a preference whether they play with their hand in the dirt or not. And some it doesn't matter and thrive. I.e. Ryan Kerrigan. How much of it matters is up for to debate. You are projecting a player's abilities into something they haven't done in college to the NFL. And that's risk to me. Show me the tape of Montez doing this. I haven't watched him that much so I might be missing it.

Was Preston Smith athletic enough to play standing up? He was an elite athlete. But he wasn't a natural at standing up and he became what he was. Pretty average.

You're just making stuff up.

It doesn't matter. Most Steelers, Ravens, Packers, Jets, Cowboys, Dolphins & Pats 3/4 OLBs before they reached back to the 4-3, Cardinals, Rams, Chargers, Chiefs etc played as 4-3 DEs in college.

I hate to say it, but it's literally the dumbest argument ever trying to prove that most NFL 3-4 OLBs played that position in college.

Do you need a list over the last 30 years of 4-3 college DEs who successfully made the switch to 3-4 olb bc I can easily provide it and it'll blow your mind bc you seem very naive about it?

And for the record, yes, Orakpo, Preston Smith and Lorenzo Alexander would be in that category. Any player who can go from playing with their hand in the dirt as a 4-3 DL in college to bring a stand up 3-4 OLB and get near or over double digit sacks as a 3-4 OLB in the pros is a success at it. 

Hence why Orakpo & Preston Smith got big long term deals to continue their careers playing 3-4 OLB for other teams via free agency.

Pro 3-4 OLBs are 9 times out of 10 athletic  4-3 college defensive ends that GMs & defensive coordinators project and convert to 3-4 olbs in the pros.

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