Landon Collins to Washington

[Skins212689]

13 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, it's how NFL teams value each position, and what they are willing to spend for each position.  If you want a good "guide" to that, check out the franchise tag values every year.  It's the average of the top salaries at each position, thus, what teams are valuing their players at.  

It's a player Agent job to get them the best contract they can, not abide buy some guide. Collins agent change somethings and so did Cousin's with thier current contracts. If Kyle Boler and Trent Difler were making more money than Ed Reed and Ray Lewis thats sad. Clearly you had 2 Hall of Famers but thier suppose to make less than the average QBs who were on the team. No No No. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Skins212689

[naptownskinsfan]

Just now, Skins212689 said:

It's a player Agent job to get them the best contract they can, not abide buy some guide. Collins agent change somethings and so did Cousin's with thier current contracts. 

This is how NFL teams value the positions and spend money.  QB is by far and away the highest position, followed by DE, WR, CB and LB.  TE is at the bottom of the list, moreso than safeties.  Remember when Jimmy Graham was franchised by the Saints?  He was fighting to be considered as a receiver because of how he lined up.  The Texans will likely tag Clowney as a linebacker, when he could also be considered a DE, and mean more money to him.  Teams use that to their advantage.  

To put it into perspective, the average of the top 5 QBs is more than double that of the top 5 safety.  That is where teams value the position as far as spending money long-term.  As far as draft position, only QBs seem to trend up above their draft slots at this point.  Players don't fall because of their positions.  

[Skins212689]

2 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

This is how NFL teams value the positions and spend money.  QB is by far and away the highest position, followed by DE, WR, CB and LB.  TE is at the bottom of the list, moreso than safeties.  Remember when Jimmy Graham was franchised by the Saints?  He was fighting to be considered as a receiver because of how he lined up.  The Texans will likely tag Clowney as a linebacker, when he could also be considered a DE, and mean more money to him.  Teams use that to their advantage.  

To put it into perspective, the average of the top 5 QBs is more than double that of the top 5 safety.  That is where teams value the position as far as spending money long-term.  As far as draft position, only QBs seem to trend up above their draft slots at this point.  Players don't fall because of their positions.  

I dont need a perspective or to be told how it works. I don't agree with it. I also edited my past post so take a look if you care too. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Skins212689

[naptownskinsfan]

Just now, Skins212689 said:

I dont need a perspective or to be told how it works. I don't agree with it. 

Well, it's how NFL teams spend their money and how they value players.  You can wish in one hand, or crap in the other, see which one gets filled first.  And in this case, it's how NFL teams spend their money. 

[Woz]

8 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

It's a player Agent job to get them the best contract they can, not abide buy some guide.

Yes, but is it the responsibility of the team to abet said agent?

9 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Collins agent change somethings and so did Cousin's with thier current contracts.

1. We can debate whether changing the structure of NFL contracts is a good thing or a bad thing on another thread.
2. Given that no other safety has been given a total value contract anywhere close to what Collins was given, can we infer that Washington overpaid relative to the market price (and potentially vastly overpaid)?
3. The bigger question: was this the best move for the franchise? Could they have gotten Collins at a cheaper price and thus kept their 3rd round compensatory pick (sacrificing their 4th)?

11 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

If Kyle Boler and Trent Difler were making more money than Ed Reed and Ray Lewis thats sad. Clearly you had 2 Hall of Famers but thier suppose to make less than the average QBs who were on the team. No No No. 

1. Boller and Dilfer are two different cases (more on that in a minute).
   1. A completely different era. While I'm not able to pull up any of their contracts (long time ago), Boller got his contract in the age when rookies could end up being one of the highest paid players on the team before even stepping on the field. So, yes, it was possible. Dunno if it happened
   2. Dilfer was signed as a backup who then replaced Tony Banks mid-2000. So, he didn't make more than them.
2. They were not supposed to make less, but (potentially in Boller's case) that's how the CBA was set up.
3. I would be willing to bet that Lewis and Reed made more over the length of their careers than either of the two QBs because they were Hall of Famers.

[Skins212689]

6 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Well, it's how NFL teams spend their money and how they value players.  You can wish in one hand, or crap in the other, see which one gets filled first.  And in this case, it's how NFL teams spend their money. 

And in this case this is how the Skins decided to spend thier money, 45 million for a SS.

[naptownskinsfan]

Just now, Skins212689 said:

And in this case this is how the Skins decided to spend thier money, 45 million for a SS.

Which is stupid, especially since they are also spending over $27 million for three QBs, one of which isn't likely to play again, and they likely are only adding to that number as I can't see the front office being stupid enough to roll with two QBs again after the debacle at the end of the season.  

There is also the chance that the Redskins let the contract run out, at least through next year.  By keeping him on the roster, Smith has access to the team doctors and facilities, and has great insurance.  The Steelers have kept Ryan Shazier on their payroll, so I can see the Redskins doing something similar since they haven't made any move on the Smith contract to date.  

[Skins212689]

5 minutes ago, Woz said:

Yes, but is it the responsibility of the team to abet said agent?

1. We can debate whether changing the structure of NFL contracts is a good thing or a bad thing on another thread.
2. Given that no other safety has been given a total value contract anywhere close to what Collins was given, can we infer that Washington overpaid relative to the market price (and potentially vastly overpaid)?
3. The bigger question: was this the best move for the franchise? Could they have gotten Collins at a cheaper price and thus kept their 3rd round compensatory pick (sacrificing their 4th)?

1. Boller and Dilfer are two different cases (more on that in a minute).
   1. A completely different era. While I'm not able to pull up any of their contracts (long time ago), Boller got his contract in the age when rookies could end up being one of the highest paid players on the team before even stepping on the field. So, yes, it was possible. Dunno if it happened
   2. Dilfer was signed as a backup who then replaced Tony Banks mid-2000. So, he didn't make more than them.
2. They were not supposed to make less, but (potentially in Boller's case) that's how the CBA was set up.
3. I would be willing to bet that Lewis and Reed made more over the length of their careers than either of the two QBs because they were Hall of Famers.

Woz I don't care how you break it down. My opinion won't change. Dilfer nor Boller are Hall of Famers or Pro Bowlers so they never should've been making more money than Reed and Lewis. I agree to disagree. 

[Skins212689]

2 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Which is stupid, especially since they are also spending over $27 million for three QBs, one of which isn't likely to play again, and they likely are only adding to that number as I can't see the front office being stupid enough to roll with two QBs again after the debacle at the end of the season.  

There is also the chance that the Redskins let the contract run out, at least through next year.  By keeping him on the roster, Smith has access to the team doctors and facilities, and has great insurance.  The Steelers have kept Ryan Shazier on their payroll, so I can see the Redskins doing something similar since they haven't made any move on the Smith contract to date.  

I didn't tell them to sign Smith or trade for him, nethier did Collins! Be mad at Bruce not Collins. 

[naptownskinsfan]

I thought everyone agreed Bruce Allen was terrible and needed to go? 

[Woz]

1 minute ago, Skins212689 said:

Dilfer nor Boller are Hall of Famers or Pro Bowlers so they never should've been making more money than Reed and Lewis. I agree to disagree. 

1. Again, given that Dilfer was signed as a backup, I would be surprised if he was making more money than Reed or Lewis.
2. As for whether Boller should or should not have (again, I don't know what his contract was vs. Reed & Lewis), *shrugs* that's the way it was in the last CBA. That's why it changed to the rookie deal system we have now. With the exception of RBs, no rookie is going to be making top of the market value and RBs are only potentially getting that because teams are now viewing them as overpriced commodities (though it is swinging back with Gurley, Elliott, and Bell).

[Skins212689]

2 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I thought everyone agreed Bruce Allen was terrible and needed to go? 

I still thinks Bruce needs to go, but this isn't adding to it. Since here the contracts signed by guys have gotten better I thought. Even Collins contract isn't as bad as people were making it to be. 

[naptownskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, Woz said:

1. Again, given that Dilfer was signed as a backup, I would be surprised if he was making more money than Reed or Lewis.
2. As for whether Boller should or should not have (again, I don't know what his contract was vs. Reed & Lewis), *shrugs* that's the way it was in the last CBA. That's why it changed to the rookie deal system we have now. With the exception of RBs, no rookie is going to be making top of the market value and RBs are only potentially getting that because teams are now viewing them as overpriced commodities (though it is swinging back with Gurley, Elliott, and Bell).

Even back then, QB was highly valued.  Dilfer was still a game manager, and after the Super Bowl win, he signed as a backup with the Seahawks.  Meanwhile, the Ravens replaced him with Elvis Grbac for five years, $30 million, and he was cut after a year for not re-negotiating his contract.  

[Woz]

6 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I thought everyone agreed Bruce Allen was terrible and needed to go? 

If anyone needed further evidence:

 

[Skins212689]

1 minute ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Even back then, QB was highly valued.  Dilfer was still a game manager, and after the Super Bowl win, he signed as a backup with the Seahawks.  Meanwhile, the Ravens replaced him with Elvis Grbac for five years, $30 million, and he was cut after a year for not re-negotiating his contract.  

So how do think that made guys on the defensive side of the ball feel?