naptownskinsfan Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just now, Skins212689 said: So how do think that made guys on the defensive side of the ball feel? How do you think kickers feel? What about backups? Are we supposed to pay everyone the same amount and sing Kumbaya in a circle when pay day comes around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: How do you think kickers feel? What about backups? Are we supposed to pay everyone the same amount and sing Kumbaya in a circle when pay day comes around? That attitude is disrespectful and thats why I'm happy Collins got his money. I'm for paying guys for their production, not solely based on thier positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just now, Skins212689 said: That attitude is disrespectful and thats why I'm happy Collins got his money. I'm for paying guys for their production, not solely based on thier positions. So the top kicker should be paid what Collins just got paid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 @naptownskinsfan, @Skins212689 - you aren't going to convince the other. It might just be high time to agree to disagree and let it go. We'll see what comes of this contract over the next few years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: So the top kicker should be paid what Collins just got paid? Don't be foolish, No! Yet if you have a kicker like the Ravens had and normally that positions only pays 3 million. With my clients consistency and record breaking numbers, I'm looking to up that scale for my client. The only way another Kicker would get that type of money is if thier as good as him. Now are you giving my client more than 3 million or will we be able to negotiate elsewhere? Edited March 18, 2019 by Skins212689 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 6 hours ago, Skins212689 said: Cousins name isn't mentioned! Dude. You've mention him like every 5 seconds when talking about Collins. Want me to go back through the threads to point it out or will you stop playing passive aggressive, and admit that Cousins is who you're talking about with the "2nd tier QB/top notch money"?? Your call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: Dude. You've mention him like every 5 seconds when talking about Collins. Want me to go back through the threads to point it out or will you stop playing passive aggressive, and admit that Cousins is who you're talking about with the "2nd tier QB/top notch money"?? Your call. Your trying in every way to make this about Cousins when my basic point has been mentioned multiple times. I'm paying guys for production not because of thier position. Take it or Leave It. Your Call. Edited March 19, 2019 by Skins212689 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 5 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said: It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, it's how NFL teams value each position, and what they are willing to spend for each position. If you want a good "guide" to that, check out the franchise tag values every year. It's the average of the top salaries at each position, thus, what teams are valuing their players at. This ^^^. NFL franchise are the ones that value QBs more than others. And @Skins212689, arguing via generalities instead of specifics is ridiculous. You mentioned Eli, but didn't mention the guys who are better that he's getting paid more than. Come out and let's talk about the differences between the players you won't mention by naming them. I'll start. To put a bow on things and get specific, Eli is getting paid more than a guy like, say...Dak Prescott. It's arguable that Dak is a better QB than Eli is. At this stage, I'd definitely argue it. So why is Eli making more $$? A) Dak is on a rookie contract that is inherently low by league design B) Eli is a veteran at the end of a long career C) See B. That career includes 2 SB wins. After which the team made sure to reward him with a large contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 23 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: Your trying in every way to make this about Cousins when my basic point has been mentioned multiple times. I'm paying guys for production not because of thier position. Take it or Leave It. Your Call. You've made it about Cousins multiple times. It's kinda like catnip at this point with you. But I'll go on. Stick to your point then. Yes, you pay for production. But you also pay for production...AT THE POSITION. You never pay a placekicker, QB money. You've even admitted in a previous discussion with me that it would be stupid to pay a PK that much money. Even a HOF place kicker is not worth average QB money to me. And it's certainly not worth it to NFL franchises. Or they would be paying them more than average QBs. Simply put, a QB (even an average one) has more to do with the eventual outcome of the game than a placekicker does. This is why they are slotted with the highest salaries. And NFL teams make those value judgements on each position as to their worth relative to how much that position will affect the outcome of the game. It's why QB, the LT and the pass rusher are usually the 3 highest average contracts. And for good reason. You may disagree with that reality. But that IS in fact, the reality of the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: You've made it about Cousins multiple times. It's kinda like catnip at this point with you. But I'll go on. Stick to your point then. Yes, you pay for production. But you also pay for production...AT THE POSITION. You never pay a placekicker, QB money. You've even admitted in a previous discussion with me that it would be stupid to pay a PK that much money. Even a HOF place kicker is not worth average QB money to me. And it's certainly not worth it to NFL franchises. Or they would be paying them more than average QBs. Simply put, a QB (even an average one) has more to do with the eventual outcome of the game than a placekicker does. This is why they are slotted with the highest salaries. And NFL teams make those value judgements on each position as to their worth relative to how much that position will affect the outcome of the game. It's why QB, the LT and the pass rusher are usually the 3 highest average contracts. And for good reason. You may disagree with that reality. But that IS in fact, the reality of the NFL. It's a fact Collins got his 45 milllion and set a new market for the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I'm not opposed to setting the market higher for someone if they deserve it. I would argue that Justin Tucker would be deserving of such a contract. Two players who set positional highs this off-season, which were Landon Collins and CJ Mosley, I would argue are not worth the money. However, over $1 billion of cap space was available and the cap went up, so teams spent money. I think both the Redskins and Jets screwed up their evaluations, especially the Redskins. Landon Collins jumped into #1 corner money, and is #4 overall for defensive back worth. But then again, AAV places Collins right with Honey Badger and Earl Thomas, but we gave out more guaranteed money. I'm OK setting the market when it's deserved. But I'm also not going to pay a top 5 safety the same amount as a top 5 quarterback. It's just not going to happen, and no NFL team will do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 35 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: It's a fact Collins got his 45 milllion and set a new market for the position. The breakdown of the contract is better for the team. The 45m is headline grabbing for sure, though. Simply put, however, you don't pay a Safety, QB money. I mean you CAN. But don't expect to keep your job if you're in the F.O. and you do those types of deals with regularity. Again, there's a reason why the average salaries are where they are for each individual position. Deviating from that incurs a ton of risk. Will it be worth it in Collins' case? We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: I'm not opposed to setting the market higher for someone if they deserve it. I would argue that Justin Tucker would be deserving of such a contract. Two players who set positional highs this off-season, which were Landon Collins and CJ Mosley, I would argue are not worth the money. However, over $1 billion of cap space was available and the cap went up, so teams spent money. I think both the Redskins and Jets screwed up their evaluations, especially the Redskins. Landon Collins jumped into #1 corner money, and is #4 overall for defensive back worth. But then again, AAV places Collins right with Honey Badger and Earl Thomas, but we gave out more guaranteed money. I'm OK setting the market when it's deserved. But I'm also not going to pay a top 5 safety the same amount as a top 5 quarterback. It's just not going to happen, and no NFL team will do that. Bingo ^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 8 hours ago, Skins212689 said: It's a fact Collins got his 45 milllion and set a new market for the position. Bully for Collins. The question is: why did Washington feel the need to take the second cheapest position group and reset the market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Haters of Collins money I'm done with y'all ✌ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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