abstract_thought Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Madmike90 said: The only thing I would question is what backs has Nagy or even Andy Reid properly paid? Westbrook got a good deal but other than that I don't remember big money ever being spent on backs. LeSean McCoy got an extension under Reid IIRC but he was traded when the time came for another deal. I don't think Davis is Pace's biggest RB splash. I think Pace expects him to be a change-of-pace guy who can also be a fallback option if they can't work out a deal with a more prominent FA. I expect the Bears to bring in another RB and trade Howard soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 23 hours ago, dll2000 said: Davis is a good fotball player. Bears fans will like him. Much, much better than Mizzel. He is just a guy though. Yup. And for $3 mil, will he play special teams? 23 hours ago, dll2000 said: Start Cohen. No. Just...no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 39 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: LeSean McCoy got an extension under Reid IIRC but he was traded when the time came for another deal. I don't think Davis is Pace's biggest RB splash. I think Pace expects him to be a change-of-pace guy who can also be a fallback option if they can't work out a deal with a more prominent FA. I expect the Bears to bring in another RB and trade Howard soon. Before ANY more moves are made at RB, what role is Jordan Howard's if tomorrow was week 1? Davis has the power to be a GL back and Patterson was used in that role some in NE. Each of them and Cohen can all play both passing and rushing downs. At least 2 of the 3 if not all of them offer ST value. So where does Howard fit even if we add nothing else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Before ANY more moves are made at RB, what role is Jordan Howard's if tomorrow was week 1? Davis has the power to be a GL back and Patterson was used in that role some in NE. Each of them and Cohen can all play both passing and rushing downs. At least 2 of the 3 if not all of them offer ST value. So where does Howard fit even if we add nothing else? It's difficult to see how any of it works out, at the moment. I guess (?) the plan is to trade Howard, and draft a replacement at starter, maybe moving up, if need be. But it's so puzzling, hard to say for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Before ANY more moves are made at RB, what role is Jordan Howard's if tomorrow was week 1? Davis has the power to be a GL back and Patterson was used in that role some in NE. Each of them and Cohen can all play both passing and rushing downs. At least 2 of the 3 if not all of them offer ST value. So where does Howard fit even if we add nothing else? Signing Davis made it clear that Howard won't be on this team next season. The possibilities I see are that Pace signs a prominent FA and Davis becomes a change of pace/backup or that Pace drafts a rookie and Davis becomes part of a committee. In either scenario there is no place for Howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Barring a splash RB signing and subsequent Howard trade, Howard's role will be the same as always .. Davis is a mizzell/Cunningham upgrade and not much more .. Patterson may get some specialist work but JH will have same role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 4 hours ago, SLCbear said: Barring a splash RB signing and subsequent Howard trade, Howard's role will be the same as always .. Davis is a mizzell/Cunningham upgrade and not much more .. Patterson may get some specialist work but JH will have same role Do you really believe that the Bears reached deals with TWO guys during the “tampering period” who play RB and fit the exact skill set Nagy covets at the position (one that Howard doesn’t himself possess) after Howard’s unquestionably worst season as a pro only to have Howard continue to have the same feature role in the offense? I think that’s incredibly naive. Finding what Nagy and Pace perceive as upgrades at Howard’s position has been unquestionably the biggest focus of the early part of FA. They’re not gonna do that just to have those guys not fill a meaningful role on Sundays. Cunningham and Mizzell combined for 20 carries last year - I don’t think the Bears gave Davis $6M over 2 years to get the ball once a week, and he’s sure not here to take reps away from Cohen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 11 hours ago, abstract_thought said: Signing Davis made it clear that Howard won't be on this team next season. The possibilities I see are that Pace signs a prominent FA and Davis becomes a change of pace/backup or that Pace drafts a rookie and Davis becomes part of a committee. In either scenario there is no place for Howard. It makes it clear they want to make a change at RB, I'll agree there, but I don't think the team with Davis replacing Howard is better for it. Imagine there are some moves to be made, I'm just surprised at Davis signing, as it doesn't seem to solve any problems or improve the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, RunningVaccs said: It makes it clear they want to make a change at RB, I'll agree there, but I don't think the team with Davis replacing Howard is better for it. Imagine there are some moves to be made, I'm just surprised at Davis signing, as it doesn't seem to solve any problems or improve the group. I disagree include Patterson to get some carries or simply be part of personnel group at what would normally be RB position. So your "RBs" right now are Cohen, Davis, Patterson. This is new age football. Davis is your hard yard back and also excels at screens, check downs and wheel routes. I have not seen him drop a short pass in 4 games. He is near guarantee 3 yard player regardless of circumstance and usually gets 4 or 5. Cohen and Patterson can line up at TB and run IZ, Power/Gap, OZ or jet sweep just fine. Can they do that individually 25x a game? No, but that isn't plan. They can also line up at WR and force a match up. Plan is to be versatile and take advantage of match ups. To get athletes the ball in space as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 30 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I disagree include Patterson to get some carries or simply be part of personnel group at what would normally be RB position. So your "RBs" right now are Cohen, Davis, Patterson. This is new age football. Davis is your hard yard back and also excels at screens, check downs and wheel routes. I have not seen him drop a short pass in 4 games. He is near guarantee 3 yard player regardless of circumstance and usually gets 4 or 5. Cohen and Patterson can line up at TB and run IZ, Power/Gap, OZ or jet sweep just fine. Can they do that individually 25x a game? No, but that isn't plan. They can also line up at WR and force a match up. Plan is to be versatile and take advantage of match ups. To get athletes the ball in space as much as possible. I see your point, but to me that is not significantly improved over Howard/Cohen/Cunningham/Patterson, especially at the higher cost. I guess my sticking point is Davis himself, he should be better in the passing game, but the (admittedly limited) bit of actual running I've seen I don't think he's better than Howard. Prove me wrong and win something from my workbench! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, RunningVaccs said: I see your point, but to me that is not significantly improved over Howard/Cohen/Cunningham/Patterson, especially at the higher cost. I guess my sticking point is Davis himself, he should be better in the passing game, but the (admittedly limited) bit of actual running I've seen I don't think he's better than Howard. Prove me wrong and win something from my workbench! At Howard's best, Howard is better runner than Davis. Not going to argue that. They have equal speed on grass. Don't quote 40x at me, I just eyeball players. Davis has far better hands. Davis is good in traditional RB passing game. He catches every check down, screen and wheel and turns it into 3 - 6 yards or more. Davis only costs more because he is a FA. Howard will get paid Davis money on his next contract. Howard is a better traditional RB, for Nagy Davis is better. But Davis is nothing special, just useful. Definite upgrade over Cunningham and Mizzel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I guess my question boils down to: is Davis $2m or whatever better than Howard in this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 9 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Do you really believe that the Bears reached deals with TWO guys during the “tampering period” who play RB and fit the exact skill set Nagy covets at the position (one that Howard doesn’t himself possess) after Howard’s unquestionably worst season as a pro only to have Howard continue to have the same feature role in the offense? I think that’s incredibly naive. Finding what Nagy and Pace perceive as upgrades at Howard’s position has been unquestionably the biggest focus of the early part of FA. They’re not gonna do that just to have those guys not fill a meaningful role on Sundays. Cunningham and Mizzell combined for 20 carries last year - I don’t think the Bears gave Davis $6M over 2 years to get the ball once a week, and he’s sure not here to take reps away from Cohen. I understand you .. but Howard is the much better back period We will either make a splash signing or draft pick and then trade Howard, or Howard will play out the final year of his contract and his replacement will come next year .. thinking that Davis is Howard's replacement doesn't make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 35 minutes ago, SLCbear said: I understand you .. but Howard is the much better back period We will either make a splash signing or draft pick and then trade Howard, or Howard will play out the final year of his contract and his replacement will come next year .. thinking that Davis is Howard's replacement doesn't make sense I hate this line of thinking. You absolutely trade Howard now. You don't let him get 8-9 carries a game and let him walk for nothing next March. Get what you can and be done with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 52 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: I hate this line of thinking. You absolutely trade Howard now. You don't let him get 8-9 carries a game and let him walk for nothing next March. Get what you can and be done with it I wasn't one in Howard needs to go camp, but I think at this point he does. Something is better than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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