wackywabbit Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Because we don't build our team through FA. We build through the draft, and supplement via FA which is why we get great production from our FA's - because none of them are corner pieces of the team and we're not overpaying any of them. Every team builds through the draft. Saying a team builds through FA instead of the draft either implies that they are either losing their draft picks or that spending money in free agency is the reason teams scout/develop poorly. Generally bad teams have a lot more draft capital. Whether they hit on or blow it has nothing to do with FA activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: Every team builds through the draft. Saying a team builds through FA instead of the draft either implies that they are either losing their draft picks or that spending money in free agency is the reason teams scout/develop poorly. Generally bad teams have a lot more draft capital. Whether they hit on or blow it has nothing to do with FA activity. That's not true. Bad teams are signing cornerstone players to FA contracts (like the Jets just did with Mosley). That's not how you successful teams are built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: That's not true. Bad teams are signing cornerstone players to FA contracts (like the Jets just did with Mosley). That's not how you successful teams are built. The amount of theoretical "NFL capital value" they spent on Mosley is trivial compared to what they spent on Darnold. What draft pick did they lose for getting Mosley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, wackywabbit said: The amount of theoretical "NFL capital value" they spent on Mosley is trivial compared to what they spent on Darnold. What draft pick did they lose for getting Mosley? Are you really arguing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Are you really arguing this? Yes. "Dumb teams build through FA and Smart teams build through draft" needs to go away. Potentially, the most worthless cliche in football right now. There is no trade-off between FA and drafting well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, wackywabbit said: Yes. "Dumb teams build through FA and Smart teams build through draft" needs to go away. Potentially, the most worthless cliche in football right now. There is no trade-off between FA and drafting well. What's the last successful team that built their cornerstone pieces through FA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 8 hours ago, wackywabbit said: Most good players on a team at any point in time will be on rookie deals that are just going to be around 1% of the cap. The only thing cap is good for is keeping a select few players who provide significant value over replacement 5+ years into their career. There's not that many players. There is no path for "smartly" allocating $200M according to people current perceptions. That’s just the thing, Mosley didn’t provide significant value over his replacement in Kenny Young and Peanut. There was little discernible difference in play when he went down and other plays needed to step in and step up. I’m actually MUCH more concerned about the loss of Eric Weddle to this defense than any other component we lost. All the other components have proven in some shape or form that they can be replaced by players currently on the roster. While Weddle left some things to be desired, we haven’t seen what this defense looks like without him in quite awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 56 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: What's the last successful team that built their cornerstone pieces through FA? That's not the question. What do FA moves have anything to do with the draft? What was the last team that had big FA signings and those signings caused them to fail at drafting. Like... if I'm literally trying to make your side of the arguement for you the best I can do is: 1. FA signings take snaps away from draft picks that would otherwise develop better. 2. Gaining compensatory picks by being less active in free agency is critical to having a good draft haul. Other than that, there is no association between how aggressive you are in FA and what you can do with the draft. Draft picks don't go away because you spend money* *except for comp picks Drafting is always more important than Free Agency, but like how did the Jets free agency activity set them up to get less out of the draft is the question you need to answer since you are basically claiming they decided not to build through the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: That's not the question. What do FA moves have anything to do with the draft? What was the last team that had big FA signings and those signings caused them to fail at drafting. Like... if I'm literally trying to make your side of the arguement for you the best I can do is: 1. FA signings take snaps away from draft picks that would otherwise develop better. 2. Gaining compensatory picks by being less active in free agency is critical to having a good draft haul. Other than that, there is no association between how aggressive you are in FA and what you can do with the draft. Draft picks don't go away because you spend money* *except for comp picks My argument is that teams that shell out huge contracts for FA's never are good, because it means they can't find cornerstone pieces in the draft. Am I wrong? If I am, give me some examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 56 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: Yes. "Dumb teams build through FA and Smart teams build through draft" needs to go away. Potentially, the most worthless cliche in football right now. There is no trade-off between FA and drafting well. There is. Your point just isn’t logical. The correlation is that good teams are generally good and thus are using their cap to retain their good players that they drafted. These players generally don’t touch FA and with this core intact, said teams remain good. The few of said players that reach FA are generally overspent on by teams on bad teams that have had many draft misses. Because said teams have missed in the draft, they must try and acquire the impact talents in FA that they were not able to acquire from the draft. Its simple opportunity cost. Either pay for your drafted talent and miss out on FA or miss out on FA because you are paying for your drafted talent. The correlation is obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: My argument is that teams that shell out huge contracts for FA's never are good, because it means they can't find cornerstone pieces in the draft. Am I wrong? If I am, give me some examples. That's a correlation without causation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: That's a correlation without causation. No it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: There is. Your point just isn’t logical. The correlation is that good teams are generally good and thus are using their cap to retain their good players that they drafted. These players generally don’t touch FA and with this core intact, said teams remain good. The few of said players that reach FA are generally overspent on by teams on bad teams that have had many draft misses. Because said teams have missed in the draft, they must try and acquire the impact talents in FA that they were not able to acquire from the draft. Its simple opportunity cost. Either pay for your drafted talent and miss out on FA or miss out on FA because you are paying for your drafted talent. The correlation is obvious. Again that has nothing to do with "building through free agency". Drafting bad is bad for teams. That's that's the only statement being made here. I don't even buy the correlation that "smart teams" have all their money tied up in their own draft picks. That's certainly not what the Pats, us, or Eagles have done to get all those comp picks every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 For instance. Our team is looking to have a lot of cap space next season, to pinpoint why that is... simply look at the tweet that discusses how many of our players we’ve retained from the 2015 classe. Why didn’t we retain said players? The reason was most of the players were largely underwhelming or didn’t do enough to earn a better deal. Had we drafted a Suggs, Ngata, and Ray Rice level player in that 2015 draft... for sure those player would have been resigned and our 2020 cap space would be just as thin as it’s been in our past. Our draft misses have afforded us more FA cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: No it's not. I mean... I've repeatedly asked you how aggressiveness in free agency CAUSES you to get less out of the draft, and I've heard nothing close to addressing that. Gah... too focused on this nonsense debate... missed the Browns doing a thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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