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Packers signing former DEN OG Billy Turner (4 years $28M, $11M in Year 1)

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1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

13 million per is fine for Preston Smith, but he's going to be a disappointment at any dollar amount. 

This is like a nightmare offseason for me.  How long are we tied to Smith and Smith? 

Adrian Amos I really like.  That was one I wanted for a long time.  I'm happy there, but Z. Smith is like a nightmare signing.  We just updated Nick Perry's contract with a different Nick Perry. 

Why is Z Smith gonna be on the damn bench/rehab room for 13 games per year?

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Just now, Arthur Penske said:

Why is Z Smith gonna be on the damn bench/rehab room for 13 games per year?

Use a comma and I'll answer you. 

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2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Why is Z Smith gonna be on the damn bench/rehab room for 13 games per year? (AP).... Use a comma and I'll answer you. 

I'd like to see an answer, too- I used a comma.

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2 hours ago, Joe said:

That opens up options within the draft. I'm wondering if we plan on trading up for one big prospect vs. sticking at 12 and 30.

I'd be all for that. Go up and get one of the few BLUE-grade players that have no chance of making it to 12. At the very least I'm happy to see their activity in FA should allow them to stick with BPA instead of reaching for perceived need in the draft.

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Just now, Mr Anonymous said:

I'd be all for that. Go up and get one of the few BLUE-grade players that have no chance of making it to 12. At the very least I'm happy to see their activity in FA should allow them to stick with BPA instead of reaching for perceived need in the draft.

When did the Packers last draft for need?  Maybe you'd make the argument for Damarious Randall.

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Just now, CWood21 said:

When did the Packers last draft for need?  Maybe you'd make the argument for Damarious Randall.

Using their top two picks on DBs in 3 out of the last 4 years sure doesn't scream coincidence. I feel like we've now had this conversation for the 3rd time btw, lol.

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Just now, Mr Anonymous said:

Using their top two picks on DBs in 3 out of the last 4 years sure doesn't scream coincidence. I feel like we've now had this conversation for the 3rd time btw, lol.

If you can even point to a single iota of evidence that suggests that the Packers drafted for need, I'd love to hear for it.  Otherwise, it's trying to connect dots that really aren't there.  Not that it's anything concrete, but I had a first round grade on Jaire Alexander and Josh Jackson in 2018.  I had a first round grade on Kevin King in 2017 as well.  2015 was really the only year I'd argue that they drafted for need.

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21 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Don’t lump me in with those white walkers up north

Lol I still try and root for them as pros

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6 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

If you can even point to a single iota of evidence that suggests that the Packers drafted for need, I'd love to hear for it.  Otherwise, it's trying to connect dots that really aren't there.  Not that it's anything concrete, but I had a first round grade on Jaire Alexander and Josh Jackson in 2018.  I had a first round grade on Kevin King in 2017 as well.  2015 was really the only year I'd argue that they drafted for need.

Since we are now discussing this a 3rd time, I'm going to simply point out how stupid the conversation is. Neither of us can prove whether the 5 draft choices made on DBs in the top 2 rounds over the past four draft were the top rated players on their board. I'm not even saying they weren't. All I said was that filling perceived holes in free agency today makes it easier too avoid the temptation to reach. Whether they have in the past or not, they have less need to do it this year and that's a good thing. You seem to think those DBs were BPA, I don't. But neither of us can stake a claim at being right. Pigeon-holing a safety at CB, drafting a CB with shoulder issues that have only worsened, and drafting a CB who struggles in press coverage doesn't make a good case. And that's without even addressing the biggest issue. Even if they weren't reaching on those picks, they sure didn't make the right choice on Randall, Rollins, Jones, and King as things look right now. And Jackson has a ways to go as well.

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Hopefully that is a 10 million dollar signing bonus and a 1 million dollar salary in year one. After year two this is a contract they could easily get out of then. 

So pro-rated that would be 3.5 in first year cap. 

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15 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Since we are now discussing this a 3rd time, I'm going to simply point out how stupid the conversation is. Neither of us can prove whether the 5 draft choices made on DBs in the top 2 rounds over the past four draft were the top rated players on their board. I'm not even saying they weren't. All I said was that filling perceived holes in free agency today makes it easier too avoid the temptation to reach. Whether they have in the past or not, they have less need to do it this year and that's a good thing. You seem to think those DBs were BPA, I don't. But neither of us can stake a claim at being right. Pigeon-holing a safety at CB, drafting a CB with shoulder issues that have only worsened, and drafting a CB who struggles in press coverage doesn't make a good case. And that's without even addressing the biggest issue. Even if they weren't reaching on those picks, they sure didn't make the right choice on Randall, Rollins, Jones, and King as things look right now. And Jackson has a ways to go as well.

Yet you're the one whose convinced that Gute and Ted abandoned the BPA principle in favor of drafting for need?  The whole concept of drafting for need is an archaic concept that we as fans use to criticize the FO.  Teams don't draft for need anymore.  They factor in need into the equation, but you're not taking a Day 3 QB prospect in the first round simply because you have a gaping hole at QB.  Value is perceived by those making the evaluations.  Just because a team uses a FRP on a guy that you graded out as a Day 2 prospect doesn't necessarily mean that the team draft for need.  It more than likely means that the team evaluated a player differently or values certain skillsets differently.  For example, looking at the body types of Za'Darius Smith and Preston Smith, it stands to reason that Clelin Ferrell is the body type in this year's draft that Pettine wants out of his EDGE.  If Gute took Ferrell over Josh Allen, does that mean that Gute abandoned BPA?  No.  It just means he evaluated his EDGE a bit differently than you.

No, I'm not saying they were necessarily BPA.  I just don't agree that they were drafted based purely on need, outside of that 2015 class.  That was really the only class that I'd argue that they drafted for need, but that's also because my opinion is clouded by how I evaluated them coming into that class.  Damarious Randall was a Day 2 safety prospect who I didn't evaluate as a CB since there was no meaningful game tape of him playing corner while at Arizona State.  The last time he played corner was at CC, which was 2 years prior.  He was a total unknown at CB for me.  As for Rollins, he was a basketball convert who I thought had some upside as a CB, but probably was going to have to move to safety eventually.  Either way, I'd pencil Damarious Randall's issues on the coaching staff more than the FO.  Especially with how well Randall played at safety, his natural position, this year.

People look at Kevin King as drafting for need, and that's because they saw a guy whose Combine didn't match up with their pre-Combine evaluation.  And it's not like he's been bad.  He just hasn't been healthy.  There's a HUGE difference between being bad and unhealthy.  Guys with Kevin King's measurables and the production to match it up don't grown on trees.  And they usually go early and often.  You usually don't find big corners who can run.  Kevin King was one of the few that come out.  Most end up transitioning to safety because they lack the long speed or flexibility to play corner.  The upside on him was tremendous.  Honestly, in terms of evaluations I'd argue he was probably closest to Datone Jones in that the Packers were looking at a very specific (and unique) body type.

EDIT: You're using the results to confirm your opinion, where as I'd argue it's more likely just a coincidence that they're drafting more DBs.  And draft history has suggested that is likely the case.  DBs are among the most drafted positions in the first round.

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2 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

13 million per is fine for Preston Smith, but he's going to be a disappointment at any dollar amount. 

This is like a nightmare offseason for me.  How long are we tied to Smith and Smith? 

Adrian Amos I really like.  That was one I wanted for a long time.  I'm happy there, but Z. Smith is like a nightmare signing.  We just updated Nick Perry's contract with a different Nick Perry. 

Your obsession with always wanting to be right, even when the evidence to the contrary is so obvious, is sad. It is to the point of it being a disorder. Man, this is a football forum and NOBODY has all the answers, even if you think you do. 

By the way, if punctuation is so important, 'offseason' is actually two words. 

Carry on! 

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