Browns will have the best offense in 2019!

[Mega Ron]

20 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It was his worst game of the season, no doubt.  Romeo made him look like a rookie.

Did you see any others?

I saw them all brother. The home game against the Ratbirds from the Dawg Pound.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, Mega Ron said:

I saw them all brother. The home game against the Ratbirds from the Dawg Pound.

The fact that you flew from London for a 24 hour stay to watch a Browns game is still one of the most impressive shows of fandom I’ve ever known of.

[ET80]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I remember when Drew Brees crapped the bed against us in 2010.

How many pelts did Brees have on the wall at that point? You can dismiss one bad game at that point, because you probably have 50+ games to say "OK, this was an outlier". 

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Now, what exactly is the value of a one game sample size?  C’mon, you’re better than that.

I get where you're getting at, but conversely - we only have 13.5 games to judge on. I'm willing to call this one game a wash, but it fits the criteria that everyone is looking for - was late in the season, Hue was already in Cincinnati, the OL was gelling well, the rookie jitters were gone.

It was a game where he looked bad - they happen, I get that. But in an exercise such as this, where you're making an argument of best player in a league with HOF calibur QBs still playing at a high level, it factors into the discussion.

[Mega Ron]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The fact that you flew from London for a 24 hour stay to watch a Browns game is still one of the most impressive shows of fandom I’ve ever known of.

It was also to get away from the wife and kids. Perhaps moreso that.

[jrry32]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

We said MVP level over the last half of the season.

We backed that up with the DVOA info, which I’ve linked previously, where he was 2nd to only Mahomes for most of the second half.

No one is saying he should have won an MVP, just that he played at a very high level the second half, which is accurate.

And I'm telling you, again, that he wasn't at that level. I don't value DVOA, so that doesn't hold water for me. MVP level is MVP level. Baker was never on that level as a rookie.

[Mega Ron]

1 minute ago, ET80 said:

How many pelts did Brees have on the wall at that point? You can dismiss one bad game at that point, because you probably have 50+ games to say "OK, this was an outlier". 

I get where you're getting at, but conversely - we only have 13.5 games to judge on. I'm willing to call this one game a wash, but it fits the criteria that everyone is looking for - was late in the season, Hue was already in Cincinnati, the OL was gelling well, the rookie jitters were gone.

It was a game where he looked bad - they happen, I get that. But in an exercise such as this, where you're making an argument of best player in a league with HOF calibur QBs still playing at a high level, it factors into the discussion.

In defense of Thy Lord Baker he also had a right cast of misfits to target at times.

[Mega Ron]

Just now, jrry32 said:

And I'm telling you, again, that he wasn't at that level. I don't value DVOA, so that doesn't hold water for me. MVP level is MVP level. Baker was never on that level as a rookie.

Yeah he was.

[jrry32]

2 minutes ago, Mega Ron said:

Yeah he was.

No, he wasn't.

[ET80]

1 minute ago, Mega Ron said:

In defense of Thy Lord Baker he also had a right cast of misfits to target at times.

Brady has won 35 of these MVPs throwing to a bunch of 4th round RBs, a converted QB, a lacrosse player and a TE who may or may not be both drunk and concussed.

If you're going to get into this discussion, you need to understand the level of competition starts at Brady.

[buno67]

2 minutes ago, ET80 said:

How many pelts did Brees have on the wall at that point? You can dismiss one bad game at that point, because you probably have 50+ games to say "OK, this was an outlier". 

I get where you're getting at, but conversely - we only have 13.5 games to judge on. I'm willing to call this one game a wash, but it fits the criteria that everyone is looking for - was late in the season, Hue was already in Cincinnati, the OL was gelling well, the rookie jitters were gone.

It was a game where he looked bad - they happen, I get that. But in an exercise such as this, where you're making an argument of best player in a league with HOF calibur QBs still playing at a high level, it factors into the discussion.

It was a game he looked bad but the entire team looked bad. 

Also to say the OL was gelling is a little bit of a reach. Greg Robinson was making his 2nd/3rd start of the season and he struggled that game. Hell his holding call on the Callaway TD pass change the momentum of that game. Browns defense looked awful. 

With how great Baker looked last year, Gregg Williams defensively was awful or Blake was awful. If it wasn’t for Garrett and Ogunjobi, I think the Browns defense would have been a clown show. It’s why people are truly excited about Wilks cause he can’t do worse than Gregggggggg as a DC. He was a fine interim HC but his defense and his son sucked the 2nd half of the year. Hell with Blake all the LBs took a step back 

[ramssuperbowl99]

11 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Bingo. He's pretty advanced. He shows a ton of promise. He is nowhere near Brady/Mahomes/Brees level (aka MVP level). He's not on Rodgers level, he's not on Ben level, he's not on Rivers level, he's not on Watson level, not on Goff level, not on Wentz level. He's projecting into this level, but he's got some growing to do.

I'd consider him in the Stafford/Dak/Trubisky level. And that is not MVP level football. It's good enough to win level, which is a fine starting point.

So, just to be clear, if the Browns make the Super Bowl we'd expect Baker to only score 2 points?

[buno67]

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

And I'm telling you, again, that he wasn't at that level. I don't value DVOA, so that doesn't hold water for me. MVP level is MVP level. Baker was never on that level as a rookie.

Of course you don’t value it, doesn’t fit your narrative...

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, ET80 said:

How many pelts did Brees have on the wall at that point? You can dismiss one bad game at that point, because you probably have 50+ games to say "OK, this was an outlier". 

I get where you're getting at, but conversely - we only have 13.5 games to judge on. I'm willing to call this one game a wash, but it fits the criteria that everyone is looking for - was late in the season, Hue was already in Cincinnati, the OL was gelling well, the rookie jitters were gone.

It was a game where he looked bad - they happen, I get that. But in an exercise such as this, where you're making an argument of best player in a league with HOF calibur QBs still playing at a high level, it factors into the discussion.

Nobody, check that, *I* have never said he’s the best in the league (god only knows what buno has uttered), simply that he played at an elite level over the last half of the season.

The basis of my stance wasn’t just personal opinion, but the passing DVOA from that stretch of games.

Im not saying he’s a HoFer, the best in the league, better than Mahomes, etc., but the folks who scoff at the idea Baker was playing at a very high level the last half of last season are ignoring the statistical evidence to the contrary and the eyes and opinions of everyone who watched every snap.  

Maybe we’re biased, but the numbers do support our stance.

[ET80]

1 minute ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

So, just to be clear, if the Browns make the Super Bowl we'd expect Baker to only score 2 points?

OH WHY NOW, YOU KNOW @jrry32 IS HERE! DAMMIT, NOW WE'RE GONNA GET ANOTHER 40 PAGES!

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

And I'm telling you, again, that he wasn't at that level. I don't value DVOA, so that doesn't hold water for me. MVP level is MVP level. Baker was never on that level as a rookie.

Ok.