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Baker Mayfield

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Too soon for the Baker vs. Mahomes debates, although they have already happened. Not only does Baker need to prove himself, so does Mahomes. They will both have about 2 years of starting after this season and then we can compare a little more realistically. If we must compare now Mahomes had a 50 TD season, he wins.

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Baker is a great QB, but I wouldn't pile money on him to win MVP. I wouldn't be surprised to see Mahomes win it again. 

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55 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

Why would being a Chargers fan effect my decision on individual players. Id take Kelce over any TE not named Kittle. Id take Chris Jones over most DLINEMEN. 

Based off his play, id take Mahomes over most young qbs. But to act like his off script improv plays were even 10% of his production is silly. The brunt of his production came off wide open schemed concepts. With tons of presnap movement and intermediate route designs that got guys wide open. No one can ignore that. KC's offensive scheme and design looked different than everyone. There might of been light versions of KCs offense like Rams and Bears, in terms of concept. 

So yes, i maybe unlike others knock Mahomes alot for that. I watched every KC game. Mahomes missed way too many easy wide open throws when in the pocket. I'm sure he will improve on that in year 2. 

 

Plus he took over for a team that won back to back division titles with multiple probowlers on the offense. 

Baker did it in very unfavorable circumstances. Baker is built different... in fairness, Mahomes seems to be built different also. But due to situational parameters i favor Baker.

Mahomes won the same division that Rivers was heavily favored to win.

Baker improved his team by more wins than Mahomes, because there was more room to improve. The difference between Baker and Kizer is bigger than the difference between Mahomes and Alex Smith.

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The Mahomes-Mayfield comparisons are intriguing. More intriguing than other “Mahomes vs.” discussions because I see similarities between them. They already played each other in college and put up huge numbers. But Mayfield played on the better team and won all the awards. In the NFL, the roles are reversed (so far).

The qualities that they share: arm strength, leadership, highly confident, good field vision, accuracy, intelligence, mobility, gunslinger mentality, competitiveness, work ethic, and “moxie.” Magnetic leaders.

There’s a lot of football to be played but these are two young, exciting QBs with stacked offenses and the NFL must be stoked to have both of them.

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I'm a Browns fan and I have no problem saying Mahomes > Baker. Easily.

But as Nightime said, we might have some really fun and electrifying games to look forward to in the future with both of these QBs!

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2 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

Why would being a Chargers fan effect my decision on individual players. Id take Kelce over any TE not named Kittle. Id take Chris Jones over most DLINEMEN. 

Based off his play, id take Mahomes over most young qbs. But to act like his off script improv plays were even 10% of his production is silly. The brunt of his production came off wide open schemed concepts. With tons of presnap movement and intermediate route designs that got guys wide open. No one can ignore that. KC's offensive scheme and design looked different than everyone. There might of been light versions of KCs offense like Rams and Bears, in terms of concept. 

So yes, i maybe unlike others knock Mahomes alot for that. I watched every KC game. Mahomes missed way too many easy wide open throws when in the pocket. I'm sure he will improve on that in year 2. 

 

Plus he took over for a team that won back to back division titles with multiple probowlers on the offense. 

Baker did it in very unfavorable circumstances. Baker is built different... in fairness, Mahomes seems to be built different also. But due to situational parameters i favor Baker.

So Josh Rosen is a better player than Jared Goff because Goff had a better offense around him? At what point does production matter? 

Mahomes went 50/12 113.8 rating and 5100 yards,....oh yeah and was the MVP  

Mayfield went 27/14 93.7 rating and 3725 yards

At this point, there is no rational argument for mayfield over mahomes besides either being a homer, a hater, a moron or some combo of the three. 

 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Soggust said:

So Josh Rosen is a better player than Jared Goff because Goff had a better offense around him? At what point does production matter? 

Mahomes went 50/12 113.8 rating and 5100 yards,....oh yeah and was the MVP  

Mayfield went 27/14 93.7 rating and 3725 yards

At this point, there is no rational argument for mayfield over mahomes besides either being a homer, a hater, a moron or some combo of the three. 

 

Rosen took over a team that was 8-8 and ended up doing worse finishing 3-13. Baker took over a team that had 1 win in 2 years and was dealing with coaching changes in his rookie year and galvanized that team and outside vs LAC and KC Browns were in every game. Who knows what happens had he started the NO and first PIT game.

Not even comparable to Rosen vs Goff. Baker also set rookie records, while missing multiple games.  The stats are illustrated by the situational parameters. Baker had a very good rookie season. Especially considering what he took over.

 

Edited by Bearerofnews

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

Rosen took over a playoff team and missed the playoffs. Baker took over a team that had 1 win in 2 years and was dealing with coaching changes in his rookie year and galvanized that team and outside vs LAC and KC Browns were in every game. Who knows what happens had he started the NO and first PIT game.

Not even comparable to Rosen vs Goff. Baker also set rookie records, while missing multiple games.  The stats are illustrated by the situational parameters. Baker had a very good rookie season. Especially considering what he took over. Bad comparison fam... 

Lol okay so you are taking Mitch Trubisky over Goff? How about Mitch over Aaron Rodgers? I mean, he galvanized a terrible team that placed 4th in the division the previous two years. The pack ended up 6-9-1. You would be in the VAST minority on both of those opinions. 

It’s obvious you’re just trying to be a contrarian. Mayfield had an absolutely great year (albeit basically all in 3 games vs 2 terrible pass defenses). He set rookie records, but Mahomes was the best QB in football by a mile last year. To suggest that Mayfield was 23 TDs 20qbr and 1300 yards worse than Mahomes (while throwing more picks) simply because of his team is insane bordering on trolling. 

Edited by Soggust

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Soggust said:

Lol okay so you are taking Mitch Trubisky over Goff? How about Mitch over Aaron Rodgers? I mean, he galvanized a terrible team that placed 4th in the division the previous two years. The pack ended up 6-9-1. You would be in the VAST minority on both of those opinions. 

It’s obvious you’re just trying to be a contrarian. Mayfield had an absolutely great year (albeit basically all in 3 games vs 2 terrible pass defenses). He set rookie records, but Mahomes was the best QB in football by a mile last year. To suggest that Mayfield was 23 TDs 20qbr and 1300 yards worse than Mahomes (while throwing more picks) simply because of his team is insane bordering on trolling. 

You keep trying to find comparable comparisons and none exist. Mitch wasnt on a team that was 1-31 the previous 2 years. Mitch also was on a team whos strength was a top 3 defense.

If you want to start cherry picking, Mahomes had 16 tds in 3 games and 34 in the other 13.  Still very impressive, but it displays how a handful of big games contributed to a high percentage of Mahomes production.

Handful being 5 games. 24 tds in 5 games 26 in 11 and about 1900 yds with 3100 in the other 11. You brought up the "albeit it in 3 games" im just using same logic against your argument.

If you think Mahomes would of had close to the season he had in KC in Cleveland then you are either crazy, homer, or trolling. 

 

P.S damn i edit alot.

Edited by Bearerofnews

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8 hours ago, buno67 said:

Difference was Gabbert was never good or special. He wasn’t that special at Mizzu

The joke

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

buno67

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1 hour ago, Soggust said:

Mayfield had an absolutely great year (albeit basically all in 3 games vs 2 terrible pass defenses)

Not getting into a Mahomes debate but does his 700+ yards against the Ravens in 2 games mean nothing? His 3 highest yard games were against the Ravens and Texans. The game against the Falcons he had his 3rd fewest yards in a game he started. Yeah he ended those games in the first half and didn't throw much at all in the second half but he also did rack up second half stats. Falcons and the Bengals (1st game) were in the playoff hunt when they lost to Cleveland, same with the Panthers and Broncos so Mayfield didn't play against teams with nothing to play for besides the second game against the Bengals.

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8 hours ago, Nightime said:

Mahomes won the same division that Rivers was heavily favored to win.

Baker improved his team by more wins than Mahomes, because there was more room to improve. The difference between Baker and Kizer is bigger than the difference between Mahomes and Alex Smith.

Rivers and the Chargers were heavy favorites?’from quick research, Chargers were 3/2 odds to win the division and KC was 5/2

winning the conference the odds were 8/1 for the Chargers and 10/1 for KC. The O/U was set at 9.5 for the Chargers and 8.5 for KC. So I don’t see where the heavy favorites thing comes from. 

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On 3/13/2019 at 11:05 PM, AkronsWitness said:

Im a Browns fan and yeah its a lot, but its fun (at least for us). Maybe its because Murphys Law has came into play to kick my Cleveland sports fandom in the nuts on a yearly basis with all 3 teams ever since I was old enough to be emotionally invested---but Im cautiously optimistic. Still some question marks on the roster at certain positions and all peoples predictions right now are extremely lofty. 

Have to go out and prove it, hope for good health and growth from young guys. But still.....it doesnt hurt to riiiiiide the waaaaaave and be excited xD

Murphy was an optimist.

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9 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

You keep trying to find comparable comparisons and none exist. Mitch wasnt on a team that was 1-31 the previous 2 years. Mitch also was on a team whos strength was a top 3 defense.

If you want to start cherry picking, Mahomes had 16 tds in 3 games and 34 in the other 13.  Still very impressive, but it displays how a handful of big games contributed to a high percentage of Mahomes production.

Handful being 5 games. 24 tds in 5 games 26 in 11 and about 1900 yds with 3100 in the other 11. You brought up the "albeit it in 3 games" im just using same logic against your argument.

If you think Mahomes would of had close to the season he had in KC in Cleveland then you are either crazy, homer, or trolling. 

 

P.S damn i edit alot.

Okay let’s use that logic -

Taking away their 3 best games:

Mahomes: 36/12  4220yards  108.7rating

Mayfield: 17/14   2967yards   86.4rating

Taking away their 5 best games:

Mahomes: 30/12  3633yards  108.6rating 

Mayfield: 12/11  2376yards   85.2rating 

Like, it’s still not remotely close. Hell, take away Mahomes 5 best games and he STILL had a better season than Baker’s COMPLETE season. You’re telling me this disparity is 100% attributable to Andy Reid, Hill > Landry and Kelce > Njoku???? Conveniently also ignoring that PFF had Cleveland with the #2 OL in the league (KC #13)?? You’re reaching to try to make this argument work and are on an island alone in the pacific with this opinion because it just makes 0 sense.

Furthermore, I never said Mahomes would replicate his MVP season in Cleveland, you’re just strawmanning at this point. The argument is that, AS OF NOW, there is 0 logic for Mayfield over Mahomes.

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Not getting into a Mahomes debate but does his 700+ yards against the Ravens in 2 games mean nothing? His 3 highest yard games were against the Ravens and Texans. The game against the Falcons he had his 3rd fewest yards in a game he started. Yeah he ended those games in the first half and didn't throw much at all in the second half but he also did rack up second half stats. Falcons and the Bengals (1st game) were in the playoff hunt when they lost to Cleveland, same with the Panthers and Broncos so Mayfield didn't play against teams with nothing to play for besides the second game against the Bengals.

You’re cherry picking that quote out of context. Mayfield had a GREAT Rookie year. I’m a fan and hope he does well. But his 3 best games were clearly vs ATL and CIN (both low end pass defenses who were in the playoff hunt DESPITE their pass d). Without those games his line becomes: 17/14  2967yards  86.4rating 

That doesn’t mean he didn’t play well in other games, but meaning those games significantly changed his season totals in a far more drastic way than Mahomes best 3 did. 

Vs Bal/Hou he had 1115 yards. That is FANTASTIC. But he did also go 5tds to 7picks, had a 78.7 average rating, lost 2 of those 3 games and Cleveland as a TEAM averaged 16.3 ppg. I’m not trying to tear him down, because again this is about Mahomes vs Mayfield, but that is why I didn’t lump them in as omg fantastic performances. 

Edited by Soggust

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