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Karnage84

POST-FA MOCK

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2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

Agreed that you can move Flowers around. However if we're looking at these different alignments - Corner really is a glaring hole.

4-3 with 4 Man Front

DE- Flowers

DT - Harrison

DT - Robinson

DE - Okawara

SLB - Kennard

MLB - Davis

WLB - Jones

CB - Slay

CB - (Maybe Coleman could play here?)

FS - Walker

SS - Diggs

-------------

3 Man Front, 3 CB's

DE- Flowers

DT - Harrison

DL - Hand

Jack - Kennard

MLB - Davis

WLB - Jones

CB - Slay

CB - Coleman

CB -

FS - Walker

SS - Diggs

------

3 Man Front, 3 S's

DE- Flowers

DT - Harrison

DL - Hand

Jack - Kennard

MLB - Davis

WLB - Jones

CB - Slay

CB -

S -Coleman

FS - Walker

SS - Diggs

 

So we add a guy that had 7 sacks and your set.. you wanna add Jonah there's one of these in every draft williams... And throw out elite... your something else

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Ok gonna go with Oliver for you guys. Sllim is a Mod and the pick makes way more sense than Jonah. 

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53 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Ok gonna go with Oliver for you guys. Sllim is a Mod and the pick makes way more sense than Jonah. 

I think Jonah makes sense, just not at 8.  We need O line help but going three straight years with OL in the first is neglecting a lot of key positions when there are elite players available at other positions.

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17 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I don't see the point in cutting Riddick.  He isn't old (27) and his cap hit is not huge.  He plays a solid role for this team and don't see why we cut him unless we need cap space, which we won't to add the couple guys you have here.

I am so so on Crowell.  I think he is an upgrade to Zenner but needs to come cheap enough (3 a year or less).  He isn't the talent level of Ingram/Coleman so should be in that range.  I think given your draft I would rather keep Riddick and draft Pollard. 

I'm not big on drafting a guard at 8 but if they think he can move outside I'd be ok with it.  I'd still rather go D Line early. I want our D to be top notch.  The offense will be good enough IMO if they put together a real gameplan instead of what JBC called last year. I like the edge guys you drafted later though so I could be ok with this as our draft.  I like Irv/TE in the second.  I think Moreau is a slightly wasted pick with us signing James and drafting Irv.  I would add a CB/S in that round instead. 

Overall I would not be mad at this.  Solid job.

Riddick is definitely a guy that can be cut IF the Lions want to use the money somewhere else. $4.M+ doesn't sound like a huge cap hit, but he's being paid as a Top 15 RB for 2019. It's not great value, especially if he's not a great fit with what Bevell wants to do. 

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13 hours ago, Rockcity2 said:

So we add a guy that had 7 sacks and your set.. you wanna add Jonah there's one of these in every draft williams... And throw out elite... your something else

We paid Ansah $17M last year for what.. 11 tackles? We still had a top 10 defense. Flowers might not get the sacks but he's going to put a lot of pressure on the opposing QB's and other guys will get those stats as a result. After seeing @IDOG_det's points and seeing the alignment, the defensive line is less of a priority to me than RG and CB2. Quenton Nelson went at #6 to the Colts and I don't think Andrew Luck is complaining about that.

My other pick would have been Ed Oliver but that seemed like more of a luxury pick.

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1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

We paid Ansah $17M last year for what.. 11 tackles? We still had a top 10 defense. Flowers might not get the sacks but he's going to put a lot of pressure on the opposing QB's and other guys will get those stats as a result. After seeing @IDOG_det's points and seeing the alignment, the defensive line is less of a priority to me than RG and CB2. Quenton Nelson went at #6 to the Colts and I don't think Andrew Luck is complaining about that.

My other pick would have been Ed Oliver but that seemed like more of a luxury pick.

There is no Quentin Nelson in this draft.  And I get what you are saying about what the biggest holes are, but you have to put positional value and cost into it as well.  CB would be a better option IMO than a guard in the first.  I think our O line needs help but we need to think beyond this year and draft for what will help long term.  Drafting for need gets you Ebron over Donald and OBJ because we had CJ and Suh.  Little did we know they were both gone a year later.  Draft the best players, not the best at a position of need, which is what the free agency has allowed them to do this year.

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Posted (edited)

I'm actually going to back you up on Theo Riddick here.

He's a gaget player, screen RB only. His game is essentially figured out now when he's in a Lion uniform, mostly cause he can't run between tackles like... at all. Zach Zenner can do EVERYTHING but isn't really great at anything, SOlid runner though, and solid special teams play too which will earn him a spot OVER Theo Riddick if it comes down to a decision like you've got here in your mock. 

If we're a pass first team, not trying to grind the rock, then I understand Theo Riddick here, but now that I know for sure we want tough runners and to run alot, He's gotta go to someone like the Colts/Eagles/Falcons, somewhere that'll use him as a pass catcher and a QB can rely on him. 

 

Now, for the draft... You passed on all my big beautiful big nastys! Cardinal sin for a Jrugges in this draft(Don't pass on the dlinemen.) Kinda sucks not seeing who's available, etc, straight guessing but unless you traded down to like 15 I'm not sure a Olinemen is the way I wanna roll, especailly for a guy that's going to attempt to be plugged in at RG after playing LT. 

The Quinton Nelson stuff is stupid to talk about... Why? You do understand year 1 he came in and was the best NFL guard and maybe best linemen in the league right? No one playing is as good as him right now. (Imo, at guard.) That's how good Nelson is. Nothing in either prospects game at the time of being drafted is comparable between Nelson and Williams unless you strictly want to point to arm length, which you already pointed out the best LT in the last 20 years had the same arm length. You pick Williams because you think he's a 10 year LT. Not because he can fit all over the line, etc. 

Anyways... * Montez Sweat. That's all I'll say. :D Stay away from NEEDS as best you can. The draft is for BPA, your building not supplementing. It's not FA.

Edited by SimbaWho

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16 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

There is no Quentin Nelson in this draft.  And I get what you are saying about what the biggest holes are, but you have to put positional value and cost into it as well.  CB would be a better option IMO than a guard in the first.  I think our O line needs help but we need to think beyond this year and draft for what will help long term.  Drafting for need gets you Ebron over Donald and OBJ because we had CJ and Suh.  Little did we know they were both gone a year later.  Draft the best players, not the best at a position of need, which is what the free agency has allowed them to do this year.

If you look at my mock, I have us taking the OL in a trade down. My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that the Patriots don't like to put rookie CB's in at starting positions and the only DB that they drafted in the first round was Devin McCourty back in 2010.

Ebron was selected because they thought he was an exceptional talent at TE, CJ and Stafford both needed a weapon that could go up the seams and take pressure off of Calvin. OBJ was injured and there were question marks about him being able to get healthy and Donald was undersized. These are clearly misevaluations and I hated the pick at the time but hindsight is 20/20. Mayhew obviously felt like Suh would be coming back and they had just drafted Nick Fairley to pair up with him. They were looking to not overinvest in the position when they already had the best DT in the game on the roster.  I still think we should have taken Donald knowing that either of those guys were likely to not be back the following season but it is what it is. Taylor Lewan would also have made sense there as there were question marks about Reiff as the future LT.

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10 minutes ago, SimbaWho said:

I'm actually going to back you up on Theo Riddick here.

He's a gaget player, screen RB only. His game is essentially figured out now when he's in a Lion uniform, mostly cause he can't run between tackles like... at all. Zach Zenner can do EVERYTHING but isn't really great at anything, SOlid runner though, and solid special teams play too which will earn him a spot OVER Theo Riddick if it comes down to a decision like you've got here in your mock. 

If we're a pass first team, not trying to grind the rock, then I understand Theo Riddick here, but now that I know for sure we want tough runners and to run alot, He's gotta go to someone like the Colts/Eagles/Falcons, somewhere that'll use him as a pass catcher and a QB can rely on him. 

 

Now, for the draft... You passed on all my big beautiful big nastys! Cardinal sin for a Jrugges in this draft(Don't pass on the dlinemen.) Kinda sucks not seeing who's available, etc, straight guessing but unless you traded down to like 15 I'm not sure a Olinemen is the way I wanna roll, especailly for a guy that's going to attempt to be plugged in at RG after playing LT. 

The Quinton Nelson stuff is stupid to talk about... Why? You do understand year 1 he came in and was the best NFL guard and maybe best linemen in the league right? No one playing is as good as him right now. (Imo, at guard.) That's how good Nelson is. Nothing in either prospects game at the time of being drafted is comparable between Nelson and Williams unless you strictly want to point to arm length, which you already pointed out the best LT in the last 20 years had the same arm length. You pick Williams because you think he's a 10 year LT. Not because he can fit all over the line, etc. 

Anyways... * Montez Sweat. That's all I'll say. :D Stay away from NEEDS as best you can. The draft is for BPA, your building not supplementing. It's not FA.

Riddick - thanks. I love the guy and he has been a great player, but I do think there's a case for moving on from him. Maybe they wait and then trade him around training camp after an injury.

Big Nasty's: The one guy that could/should be available at #8 who could be a fit is Ed Oliver. So I would look at him there as well. However, to idog's point... you don't take a guy with your 1st rounder that is only going to play 30% of the snaps. Harrison and Hand are both starters and solid run blockers. Oliver makes a lot of sense if the team is looking for a penetrating DT that generates sacks. If they're looking for increased pressure and sacks coming from great coverage, adding Flowers accomplishes that and it puts more priority on a CB2.

Nelson - I'm not saying that Williams is going to be Quenton Nelson. There is talk that Williams could be an elite level OG if he moves inside but he wants to be an OT. Looking at our hole this year (RG) and our holes next year (RT) with Decker's contract coming up soon, a top level guy who can do several things is great to have. All of this is AFTER we've added extra picks in a trade down.

Sweat: He has his own question marks despite that elite level of athleticism. He is also not there at #13 in that trade down with Miami.

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Posted (edited)

IDOG also endorsed the Ebron pick before they actually selected him even  so... I take his opinions on players and eat them up like salt on my mac'n'cheese. He's a Lion apologist. 

I really don't understand this Montez Sweat talk/questions though. I know you're listening to talking T.V. Heads so... I'll just wait for you to do your own research and watch him yourself. Hard to not notice him even if he doesn't produce a sack. I got a hard time believing(outside of being jaded from me.) that you really don't like this guy after watching him. He's not DJ Metcalf. He's produced at a high level in a good conference and nailed the athletic workout. I'd be more worried about Bosa simply cause I've literally never seen him play, and only have to go off what "others" think and say. I can actually say I don't know a thing about Bosa, so I'd be gambling with the pick. If that's how you feel with Sweat, then, sure I get it. 

The pressure you can create from different looking fronts with just Flowers/Sweat/Okwara/Kennard is big time. I mean really threatening for other teams. In both 4-3/3-4 aliments. 

Sweat - Flowers - Hand or Harrison - Okwara - Kennard  is my favorite looking 3rd down pass rush front that I can imagine right now but... you can mix it up a lot of other ways too. 

Edited by SimbaWho

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8 minutes ago, SimbaWho said:

IDOG also endorsed the Ebron pick before they actually selected him even  so... I take his opinions on players and eat them up like salt on my mac'n'cheese. He's a Lion apologist. 

I really don't understand this Montez Sweat talk/questions though. I know you're listening to talking T.V. Heads so... I'll just wait for you to do your own research and watch him yourself. Hard to not notice him even if he doesn't produce a sack. I got a hard time believing(outside of being jaded from me.) that you really don't like this guy after watching him. He's not DJ Metcalf. He's produced at a high level in a good conference and nailed the athletic workout. I'd be more worried about Bosa simply cause I've literally never seen him play, and only have to go off what "others" think and say. I can actually say I don't know a thing about Bosa, so I'd be gambling with the pick. If that's how you feel with Sweat, then, sure I get it. 

The pressure you can create from different looking fronts with just Flowers/Sweat/Okwara/Kennard is big time. I mean really threatening for other teams. In both 4-3/3-4 aliments. 

I felt that way about Jaylon Ferguson... but he's also playing against much lower competition. He did look good against LSU.

I've watched Sweat highlights - so I'll have to start looking at him in game tape (same with Ferguson) to get a better handle. I'm in the same boat as you with Bosa.

 

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16 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said:

What has idog got right..

I can't quote anything off of the top of my head but his posts are very methodical and seem to come from a place of knowledge. It doesn't mean that every idea he has is going to be right. The guys who are paid to do this in real life and have a whole support staff to help them have a 50/50 hit rate on 1st rounders. I'd guess that IDOG does as well or better than Mel Kiper does with his projections.

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1 minute ago, Karnage84 said:

I can't quote anything off of the top of my head but his posts are very methodical and seem to come from a place of knowledge. It doesn't mean that every idea he has is going to be right. The guys who are paid to do this in real life and have a whole support staff to help them have a 50/50 hit rate on 1st rounders. I'd guess that IDOG does as well or better than Mel Kiper does with his projections.

Name just one..

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