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Browns "aggressively" shopping Haden


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If his name wasn't "Joe Haden" then he would potentially not even be on the team this year, that's how bad of a camp/preseason he's had. The injuries are definitely taking their toll on him, and he's half the player he used to be. I can't imagine we will get much if anything for him, and I can't imagine anyone would be willing to take on his horrendous contract.

IMO his only hope of becoming a good/great player again would be if he made a successful move to Free Safety.

Given our lack of depth/quality starters in the defensive backfield (although some of those guys are looking decent), this should be a red flag to other NFL teams on just how bad they want to move him and his contract.

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9 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

If his name wasn't "Joe Haden" then he would potentially not even be on the team this year, that's how bad of a camp/preseason he's had. The injuries are definitely taking their toll on him, and he's half the player he used to be. I can't imagine we will get much if anything for him, and I can't imagine anyone would be willing to take on his horrendous contract.

IMO his only hope of becoming a good/great player again would be if he made a successful move to Free Safety.

Given our lack of depth/quality starters in the defensive backfield (although some of those guys are looking decent), this should be a red flag to other NFL teams on just how bad they want to move him and his contract.

I don't think they care at all about his deal, they just don't think he helps them at this point IMO.

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5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I don't think they care at all about his deal, they just don't think he helps them at this point IMO.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I still think that there's a sliding scale on "helping the team".

You are allowed to make _________ much money and help the team out __________ much. Think of the Vicky Mendoza line while applying "Money" instead of "Crazy" and "Good" for "Hot".

tumblr_nb84l3IKzE1tung41o1_500.gif

Is Joe probably good enough to still warrant a roster spot...probably. He could be a 3rd/4th corner or a backup FS.

However, given his contract, he's not a viable #1/#2 outside corner at this point in his career IMO.

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29 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I still think that there's a sliding scale on "helping the team".

You are allowed to make _________ much money and help the team out __________ much. Think of the Vicky Mendoza line while applying "Money" instead of "Crazy" and "Good" for "Hot".

tumblr_nb84l3IKzE1tung41o1_500.gif

Is Joe probably good enough to still warrant a roster spot...probably. He could be a 3rd/4th corner or a backup FS.

However, given his contract, he's not a viable #1/#2 outside corner at this point in his career IMO.

Not to derail this too much, but this is the original "Hot/crazy matrix"

 

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58 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

If his name wasn't "Joe Haden" then he would potentially not even be on the team this year, that's how bad of a camp/preseason he's had. The injuries are definitely taking their toll on him, and he's half the player he used to be. I can't imagine we will get much if anything for him, and I can't imagine anyone would be willing to take on his horrendous contract.

IMO his only hope of becoming a good/great player again would be if he made a successful move to Free Safety.

Given our lack of depth/quality starters in the defensive backfield (although some of those guys are looking decent), this should be a red flag to other NFL teams on just how bad they want to move him and his contract.

Jason La Canfora reporting...I don't know....I highly doubt these rumors have any substance to them or are based in reality. I doubt the Browns think an even older Jason Mccourty, Boddy-Calhoun, Jamar Taylor, and Darius Hillary are a step forward. I know a lot of people are high on our "corner depth" but I'm not and think that they could struggle. Taylor played well in spots last year but has bad eyes and got smoked a lot as well.

It's to our advantage to have a CB room of Haden, Mccourty, Boddy-Calhoun, and Jamar Taylor as that CB room is an injury away from disaster without Haden.

A 4th round pick or less is meaningless. A third round pick nets you talent like Cody Kessler or Xavier Cooper...

I'd have to get a 2nd round pick to get rid of him....

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@MWil23  Bad camp?? How so? According to who? Bad preseason?? Bad plays...Which games? I think He's only had two bad plays this preseason.

Bad play #1.): where he tried to one step-Jam the biggest receiver and best off the line WR in the nfl in Brandon Marshall where he(Joe) lost his balance, couldn't flip his hips, and had to play catch up. He got beat. It happens. It happens to Richard Sherman, Patrick Peterson, Brent Grimes, etc. Solomon Wilcots did the whole "Joe Haden is struggling again..." And every fan jumps off the roof with their Joe Haden hot takes.

Bad play #2.): In the Bucs game, he had slow/bad eyes in zone on the boundary. Got caught peeking in the backfield and didn't properly feel the WR sneak in further back behind him.

Other than that, he's been great in run support and coming up to violently thump like a LB/Safety. He's been charted statistically to have 3 PBUs in 3 games of limited sample size of play. He's actually played well.

It's not that bad of a contract if you think Joe Haden can be Joe Haden again....we have the money...I'd wait and see if he can return from the injuries this season. Then, if we want to cut him or trade him then so be it.

 

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@Mind Character I trust my eyes on what I've seen thus far combined with his extreme lack of production/health over the last 2 years. Here's what I've seen so far on Joe:

1. I see a guy who has struggled to stay healthy making an absurd amount of money.

2. I see a guy who looks SLOW on tape and lacks make up speed on vertical/deep routes and double moves.

3. Clearly the FO agrees with me. We, on a team that is coming off of a 1-15 season with huge glaring needs/holes in the secondary (aside from stopgaps in place that "could" pan out), are actively and aggressively shopping Joe.

4. McCourty, Jamar Taylor, and BBC have looked BETTER than him so far.

Just my opinions and observations. I hope I'm wrong...if our secondary has any hope for 2017, I'd better be wrong.

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I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle - he's still capable of providing average to solid play at the position but every so often he'll get caught peeking in the backfield (an issue he's had for years) and now his loss of speed doesn't allow him to mask that as much and he gives up the big play - the biggest problem is even if he's only doing that a couple times a game, that can be the difference between a win and a loss. 

For me, if I'm being realistic I don't think there's any way in hades that we're getting a second or third or even a fourth for him, as this is the exact definition of selling low - I think the ceiling is a swap of under-performing players that both teams hope a change in scenery will be beneficial for. 

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10 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

@Mind Character I trust my eyes on what I've seen thus far combined with his extreme lack of production/health over the last 2 years. Here's what I've seen so far on Joe:

1. I see a guy who has struggled to stay healthy making an absurd amount of money.

2. I see a guy who looks SLOW on tape and lacks make up speed on vertical/deep routes and double moves.

3. Clearly the FO agrees with me. We, on a team that is coming off of a 1-15 season with huge glaring needs/holes in the secondary (aside from stopgaps in place that "could" pan out), are actively and aggressively shopping Joe.

4. McCourty, Jamar Taylor, and BBC have looked BETTER than him so far.

Just my opinions and observations. I hope I'm wrong...if our secondary has any hope for 2017, I'd better be wrong.

@MWil23   I think your first point is very valid. He has been injured often and his contract is really bad if that player doesn't make the field.

I, however, unlike a lot of others, don't actually think he's played poorly when he's played healthy. As a result, i throw last years tape out the window b/c he played CB with two torn groins which is d*** near impossible. He struggled often, but also acquitted himself well in moments. The year before that he struggled with brain injury concerns that I can't hold against him for putting it on the line on the field.

So, outside of those big injury years over the last 2 years, he's mostly balled out.

I think he's played fast and with force this preseason and has cracked opposing players in run support. I think it's crazy to say Mccourty, Jamar, and BBC have looked better as most have had reps against lesser comp and all 3 have gotten beat on comeback routes and 8 yard outs during the preseason. They are not world beaters.

I could be wrong about the FO trying to move Haden but it would be risky proposition to ride with the corners we have (Maybe they see a corner out there that they like more)..

A 3rd round pick or less is really nothing for a potential immediate impact starter. I hate 3rd rounders unless they're coupled in a trade to get value back.

A 2nd round pick in return, and I'll wish Joe well and thank him for his efforts on the field. Other than that, eat the contract, see what he has this season...if he doesn't have it cut him.

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