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Browns "aggressively" shopping Haden

BwickRedux

By BwickRedux
in Cleveland Browns

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Mind Character

Mind Character

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16 minutes ago, BwickRedux said:

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle - he's still capable of providing average to solid play at the position but every so often he'll get caught peeking in the backfield (an issue he's had for years) and now his loss of speed doesn't allow him to mask that as much and he gives up the big play - the biggest problem is even if he's only doing that a couple times a game, that can be the difference between a win and a loss. 

For me, if I'm being realistic I don't think there's any way in hades that we're getting a second or third or even a fourth for him, as this is the exact definition of selling low - I think the ceiling is a swap of under-performing players that both teams hope a change in scenery will be beneficial for. 

In that case, then why trade him?

I mean a 5th rounder?? For what, more cap space?

I just can't get behind that as it doesn't further our potential prospects for winning. Even if Joe struggles in spots, he's going to compete and make plays as well. He did that with severe injuries last year and definitely would do it again if not more this year with more renewed health.

I would've traded Joe and a pick for Sammy Watkins...or I'd flip him and a pick for WR help as in Jarvis Landry or someone else.

But to get rid of him, we need to put ourselves in a better position to win this year. Mccourty was garbage last year according to Titans fans and was benched. BBC is young, makes plays, but get beat a lot, Jamar is the same way...if we get rid of Joe we need a corner immediately...

I don't worship PFF stats like some, but their CB efficiency/production calculation is pretty solid. On two torn groins Haden had a 53.6 PFF production grade.  A Healthy Mccourty had a 41.3 grade. That's 22 corners worse than Haden...

I'm not sure where all the optimism with Mccourty, BBC, and Jamar is coming from...even with Haden in the room there is concern in my mind.

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BwickRedux

BwickRedux

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1 minute ago, Mind Character said:

In that case, then why trade him?

I mean a 5th rounder?? For what, more cap space?

I believe they'd trade him for the exact reason I mentioned: after shopping him around another team offers an under-performing player the Browns feel they can rehab to play at his potential above what they've seen Joe offering in his current role.

In regards to draft picks, my point wasn't to say they should trade him for a fifth, it was just that I highly doubt on the trade market he'd be worth higher than a fourth - I think this is one case where they shouldn't try to leverage more picks because I don't think the return would be worth it.

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Mind Character

Mind Character

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13 minutes ago, BwickRedux said:

I believe they'd trade him for the exact reason I mentioned: after shopping him around another team offers an under-performing player the Browns feel they can rehab to play at his potential above what they've seen Joe offering in his current role.

In regards to draft picks, my point wasn't to say they should trade him for a fifth, it was just that I highly doubt on the trade market he'd be worth higher than a fourth - I think this is one case where they shouldn't try to leverage more picks because I don't think the return would be worth it.

Okay...I see your point. Understood. Another player with a more favorable contract would indeed be the only scenario a trade would make sense.

Maybe target the WR position. Who the potential player might be is another question. The Bills and Jets look to be in tank mode and have had some disgruntled players. I'd stay away from Sheldin Richardson as he's a locker room buster; however, if we could flip Joe and a pick for a very disgruntled Marcell Dareus that would be somewhat of a fantasy option but would be great if Dareus is still motivated to be great and could stay on the straight and narrow. Dareus battles with depression, marijuana abuse, and is in danger of being a repeat offender however...maybe that gets factored into the cost.

I would have flipped him to Philly for Jordan Matthews but that's no longer an option.

We shall see what happens...

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brownie man

brownie man

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I've been saying this for the longest

the national media has no idea what the brown's plans are

they haven't forecasted any moves and I don't think they're gonna start now. 

It would make sense because Boddy has definitely looked like the better player in every aspect  along with J Taylor and Mccourty. 

But I think we end up keeping Haden and Erving. It'd be too good to be true to get rid of them. 

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MWil23

MWil23

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27 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

@MWil23   I think your first point is very valid. He has been injured often and his contract is really bad if that player doesn't make the field.

I, however, unlike a lot of others, don't actually think he's played poorly when he's played healthy. As a result, i throw last years tape out the window b/c he played CB with two torn groins which is d*** near impossible. He struggled often, but also acquitted himself well in moments. The year before that he struggled with brain injury concerns that I can't hold against him for putting it on the line on the field.

Respectfully, while that's a big deal and I wish him a best as a person, that makes him borderline if not completely useless on the football field as a player. Again, no disrespect intended, but it's true, especially given his salary.

27 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

So, outside of those big injury years over the last 2 years, he's mostly balled out.

So, over the last two years, he's played in 18 total games. I guess in the 5 he's played healthy, he's "balled out". However, 5 for 32 games "balling out" is horrendous, assuming that I would even agree with you, which I personally don't.

27 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

I think he's played fast and with force this preseason and has cracked opposing players in run support. I think it's crazy to say Mccourty, Jamar, and BBC have looked better as most have had reps against lesser comp and all 3 have gotten beat on comeback routes and 8 yard outs during the preseason. They are not world beaters.

They aren't world beaters at all, which is what I've insinuated...and that makes Joe's play even worse considering those three aren't exactly lock-down. Have they played against lesser competition? ABSOLUTELY. But, they've produced very well and that's all you can ask for against guys that they've faced. BBC and JT were better than Joe last year too IMO.

27 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

I could be wrong about the FO trying to move Haden but it would be risky proposition to ride with the corners we have (Maybe they see a corner out there that they like more)..

It definitely is, unless they think Joe is washed up, or that it would be more beneficial to try to get a future pick and take our lumps in the secondary this year than roll with a past his prime corner making way too much money.

27 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

A 3rd round pick or less is really nothing for a potential immediate impact starter. I hate 3rd rounders unless they're coupled in a trade to get value back.

I agree. The problem is that Joe's not even close to an impact starter at this point in his career.

27 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

A 2nd round pick in return, and I'll wish Joe well and thank him for his efforts on the field. Other than that, eat the contract, see what he has this season...if he doesn't have it cut him.

I'm thankful for what he's done in his career in Cleveland thus far, but at some point, when guys sign big contracts and say it's a "business decision", then when they don't live up to those contracts, whether injuries/talent or whatever, then a "business decision" goes both ways and it's time to part ways.

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ReggieCamp

ReggieCamp

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1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I don't think they care at all about his deal, they just don't think he helps them at this point IMO.

I agree.  If they trade him (or cut him), it's because they think he's no better than the other DB's on the roster.  Having a big contract certainly doesn't help his case, but it will probably serve as a tiebreaker.

OR...

Peaches LaCanfora is full of sht, and Haden isn't being shopped.  Either scenario is quite possible.

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Bucketheadsdad

Bucketheadsdad

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1 hour ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

 

 

cam too. Can't imagine anyone would give up anything for him. 

We got a 6th for Justin Gilbert.  Following that logic, we should be able to get a 2nd rounder for Erving.  

 

(I know that isn't happening, but Gilbert was extraordinarily bad.  Erving, while being pretty lousy, still did end up starting (albeit by default.)

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