mikemike778 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Joe said: I think the point that is getting lost here is the fact that Gute is quicker to jettison underperforming players than TT was. Think of it this way: how many years were we subjected to Jarrett Bush and then Nick Perry? Coaching staff wise: at what point would Dom have finally been let go had it not been for TT stepping down? One can easily make the case that Dom's influence in the War Room significantly tarnished the legacies of both TT and MM. That point is getting lost in translation, at least at this point in time. Bush did OK for what he was. Perry had talent and was on a rookie contract. The deal he was given was obviously a mistake but before then whilst on his rookie deal, it made sense to persevere. I'm not sure that binning players constantly is particularly what you want to help win games. You don't want players afraid to make mistakes and you do want players to recognise who is who in the locker room if you want to maintain team spirit. Yeah people need competition but that sort of thing can create a toxic atmosphere where players don't want to play. At one point last season, it looked like Gute had an attitude of "if in doubt kick them out" which probably harmed our chances of getting results. Again that's fine for a year whilst he gets in who he wants but its not what you want as an ongoing thing. Some sort of middle ground between last year and TT's excessive loyalty is what you've got to be going for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, mikemike778 said: Bush did OK for what he was. Perry had talent and was on a rookie contract. The deal he was given was obviously a mistake but before then whilst on his rookie deal, it made sense to persevere. I'm not sure that binning players constantly is particularly what you want to help win games. You don't want players afraid to make mistakes and you do want players to recognise who is who in the locker room if you want to maintain team spirit. Yeah people need competition but that sort of thing can create a toxic atmosphere where players don't want to play. At one point last season, it looked like Gute had an attitude of "if in doubt kick them out" which probably harmed our chances of getting results. Again that's fine for a year whilst he gets in who he wants but its not what you want as an ongoing thing. Some sort of middle ground between last year and TT's excessive loyalty is what you've got to be going for. Eating the bait hook, line, and sinker was where I was going with the Perry thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, mikemike778 said: I think you have to give Gute a free pass for a year. But its his roster now and we have to win games next year. If we don't make the play-offs and Rodgers plays the majority of the season then he has been a failure. For all TT's failings (and his record near the end was dodgy), when he had Rodgers we made the playoffs and had a super-bowl shot. The roster turnover is to be expected for a new GM but really, it was a weaker roster than we had the majority of seasons under TT. That's OK for a year whilst he gets in who he wants. Its not OK for two years on the bounce. Not disagreeing with anything you're saying. Just don't think the transformation should be described as amazing when we were lousy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) The roster was stale, full of guys on treadmills, dumb contracts, and our QB got drilled for the 3rd year in a row. It's not rocket surgery or brain science Edited March 20, 2019 by cannondale 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 Looks like the Viking currently still have 30 players on their roster from 2017. The Patriots, who are renowned for constantly churning their roster, appear to currently have 26 players remaining from 2017. The 2016 Packers roster featured 30 players who were also on the 2014 roster. The 2015 Packers roster featured 31 players who were also on the 2013 roster. Meanwhile, it looks like only 19 players remain who were on the Packers 2017 roster with more departures likely to come prior to the start of the 2019 season. Maybe Gute really is operating just like his predecessor did and there is nothing unique about the roster changes he has made. Then again, perhaps Gute did not think the roster he inherited was very good and has consciously purged that roster during the 14 months he's been on the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packer_ESP Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) Googling "NFL average roster turnover" Second result: https://overthecap.com/roster-turnover-2017-number-10-1/ Packers with the 10th most turnover in Ted's last year using a metric that includes snaps lost in different categories and average contract value. Not bad for a guy who supposedly kept his own guys at all costs. For information on how the ranking is compiled: https://overthecap.com/roster-turnover-2017-number-32-21/ Edited March 20, 2019 by Packer_ESP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACKRULE Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Not to jump in here and hijack but it fits in this thread and I don't need to post the links they are easy to find. But I find it heartwarming to see guys like AR and DB speaking so highly of former teamates that departed this year and in previous years in FA or being released. Yes things had to change and always do but it really shows the culture that TT helped build here in the last decade. It's no wonder why we traded Randall if he was that far outside of it. Just feel very good to be a fan of a good team that has a moral compass and high values ( although not perfect ). I get it it's a business but still nice to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 hour ago, TheOnlyThing said: Looks like the Viking currently still have 30 players on their roster from 2017. The Patriots, who are renowned for constantly churning their roster, appear to currently have 26 players remaining from 2017. The 2016 Packers roster featured 30 players who were also on the 2014 roster. The 2015 Packers roster featured 31 players who were also on the 2013 roster. Meanwhile, it looks like only 19 players remain who were on the Packers 2017 roster with more departures likely to come prior to the start of the 2019 season. Maybe Gute really is operating just like his predecessor did and there is nothing unique about the roster changes he has made. Then again, perhaps Gute did not think the roster he inherited was very good and has consciously purged that roster during the 14 months he's been on the job. At least attempt to make an apples-to-apples comparison. A new GM usually means they want to bring their own players. That's nothing new. The Zimmer/Spielman duo has been in place since 2014, which means they're going into their 6th offseason together. We're going into our second offseason with Gute and our first with LaFleur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 hour ago, CWood21 said: A new GM usually means they want to bring their own players. Good to know you agree with the following statement; "Gute truly is remaking the Packers in accordance with his own vision of what a roster should look like," which is precisely what I wrote in the opening post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 minute ago, TheOnlyThing said: Good to know you agree with the following statement; "Gute truly is remaking the Packers in accordance with his own vision of what a roster should look like," which is precisely what I wrote in the opening post. The confusion seems to be stemming from what you think is amazing? Is it the amount of player turnover? Is it the quality of player turnover? What has you so jacked up about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddfather Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 TT vs GUTE... I'm going to have to let the swimsuit contest decide this one for me... Too close to call atm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said: Good to know you agree with the following statement; "Gute truly is remaking the Packers in accordance with his own vision of what a roster should look like," which is precisely what I wrote in the opening post. Which is even more evidence that you have zero evidence to support your disdain for Ted Thompson. But no, you'll use hindsight to make your "argument". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: The confusion seems to be stemming from what you think is amazing? Is it the amount of player turnover? Is it the quality of player turnover? What has you so jacked up about this? Nothing. What is/are the biggest moves that Gute has made up until this point? Last year, his biggest FA signing was Jimmy Graham and his big move was the trade down and a move up. This year, his biggest move is his FA splurge. The amusing thing is that the Packers under TT had their signing splurge and made significant amount of moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 5 hours ago, CWood21 said: 2/3rds? You're kidding, right? Not really. That’s a pretty crap list of guys. Guys who were not athletic enough for the NFL, guys who had never played a certain position we played them in and others who were over the hill when we brought them in in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, MantyWrestler said: Not really. That’s a pretty crap list of guys. Guys who were not athletic enough for the NFL, guys who had never played a certain position we played them in and others who were over the hill when we brought them in in the first place. 2/3rds of our roster is a little over 35 players. Do you really think we're replacing 35 players every year? No. As it's been discussed before, you're moving on from ~20 players every offseason. The large majority of those players are fringe roster guys. Not guys who are actually playing meaningful snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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