Vikings Sign Josh Kline

[Cearbhall]

The Vikings structured the Kline contract to have a distribution of cap hit allocations like this:

  2019: 19.89%
  2020: 39.25%
  2021: 40.96%

It wouldn't have been hard to distribute the cap hits some other way. The distribution was intentional.

What the team actually pays Kline is distributed like this:

  2019: 37.1%
  2020: 30.65%
  2021: 32.26%

This shows how hard the Vikings currently are pushing the back-load slider.

 

 

[SemperFeist]

 

[vikingsrule]

Basically Kline can be cut next year for a bit of cap savings if he's replaced.

[SemperFeist]

Just now, vikingsrule said:

Basically Kline can be cut next year for a bit of cap savings if he's replaced.

I’d say more like in 2021. $4.46M in dead money is a bit more than what we’ve seen the Vikings do in the past. I can’t remember a player that they’ve released who cost more in dead money than they saved in space. 

[vikingsrule]

14 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

I’d say more like in 2021. $4.46M in dead money is a bit more than what we’ve seen the Vikings do in the past. I can’t remember a player that they’ve released who cost more in dead money than they saved in space. 

The cap is getting tighter and tighter too. It seems they paid him as a backup/fringe starter level player in year one. His year two increase pays him as a legit starter. I think he's really going to have to earn it to be here in 2020, which means two early IOL is still in play in the draft. 

[swede700]

33 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

I’d say more like in 2021. $4.46M in dead money is a bit more than what we’ve seen the Vikings do in the past. I can’t remember a player that they’ve released who cost more in dead money than they saved in space. 

Agreed.  He's pretty much guaranteed to be here through the rest of Cousins' deal.  

[Cearbhall]

2 hours ago, vikingsrule said:

Basically Kline can be cut next year for a bit of cap savings if he's replaced.

Yep, I am seeing the same thing. Great point!

If the Vikings keep him on the roster next year he'll cost them $6.083M against the '20 cap and still they'd still have $1.33M allocated for him against the '21 cap.

If the Vikings cut bait after this year (pre-June 1) he'll only count $4.46M against their cap in '20 and they'll have nothing allocated for him in '21.

That is a cap savings of over $1.6M in '20 and $1.33M in '21 if they cut him after one year. That is a total net cap savings of almost $3M if it isn't working out with him.

If the Vikings get a a couple guards in the draft this year that they like as starters going forward I can see the Vikings moving on from Kline after the first year. That would be great! It would make Kline a pretty expensive starter for the one year they get him but it is without doubt an option they have available to them.

Late Add:

This analysis all neglected to mention the fact that the $1.8M the Vikings guaranteed to Kline in '20 is most likely subject to offset. That makes it potentially even cheaper to move on from him after a single year. It is likely the team would claw back at least an additional $1M via the offset mechanism yielding a net cap savings of about $4M if they move on from him after one year versus keeping him for the team option year in '20. The offset amount would reduce the dead charge for '20 by however much of it is offset, potentially all of it.

For example, if Kline signs for at least $1.8M with another team after the Vikings cut him the Vikings would only be left with a $2.66M dead charge. That charge could also be spread across two years if the Vikings chose to designate him as a post June 1 cut.

Similarly, if the Vikings traded him away the other team would pick up the guaranteed $1.8M for '20 and that amount would not be charged against the Vikings cap.

[Cearbhall]

1 hour ago, vikingsrule said:

The cap is getting tighter and tighter too. It seems they paid him as a backup/fringe starter level player in year one. His year two increase pays him as a legit starter. I think he's really going to have to earn it to be here in 2020, which means two early IOL is still in play in the draft. 

This is something that I see differently. The team is committing $7.55M to him for his first year. That is above average starter level pay.

An important thing the Vikings bought with the high first year commitment is the ability to have control over Kline for a couple years at very reasonable salaries for a starter. If he doesn't look good enough to continue as a starter I wouldn't want to pay him that much to be a backup either. The team can try to trade him to a team that thinks he could start for them as it would be an attractive salary for a starter.

For year two the team would have to commit another $2.95M. That would be either very low level starting pay or high level backup pay. I wouldn't pick up the option year for that much if he was projected to be a backup.

The Vikings would have to commit $5M for the team option year in '21. That is fine if he is good enough to be counted on as a starter. That would be way out of line to pay him if he was only going to be a backup. There is almost no way the team would pick up that option if they only see him as a backup at that point.

It looks pretty clearly to me like a one year commitment from the team with two option years for the team after tacked onto the one-year contract. If Kline's agent explained it as anything other than that to his client he would have been doing his client a disservice IMO.

I do agree 100% that two early IOL should still be in play in the draft. I would go further and say that three early IOL should still be in play. Wouldn't it be great if all three became starters by the second year leaving Elflein as a backup for all three positions? Or even better if Elflein improves to starting caliber and the lesser of the three drafted players had versatility to backup all three IOL positions?

The only reason the team shouldn't draft three IOL in this draft is that they have other areas of imminent need too and there may be better players available at one of those positions. For example, what if a franchise LT or QB was on their board at 18. They would almost certainly take such a player over an IOL prospect. Absent a trade, that only leaves the Vikings with two additional selections in the first couple days of the draft. That would make taking three IOL players in the first couple days pretty challenging even though it is enticing to think about.

[boombap]

On 2019-03-26 at 8:49 AM, Virginia Viking said:

I would also invite you to acknowledge that this roster that GM's would die for has yet to win a championship.  In fact, with the poor offensive line play and corresponding quarterback play, the team regressed in 2018 to being middle of the pack.

I do hope that you are correct about Kubiak and Dennison.  I would be more hopeful with better than mediocre at best talent along the offensive line.

True. But how many teams win a title every year? One. So the other 31 GMs fail every year and so many variables come in to play for a team to win a superbowl that it's so hard to quantify. The key is to build a roster that can compete and have a fighting chance every season. Rick has done that. Hes also had to deal with 2 starting QBs lost for the season with injuries, staff deaths, stadium moves, Zimmer half blind, etc. The man has done a very good job. Look around the league and you will see every team has holes. Most at much more priority positions than IOL. 

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, boombap said:

True. But how many teams win a title every year? One. So the other 31 GMs fail every year and so many variables come in to play for a team to win a superbowl that it's so hard to quantify. The key is to build a roster that can compete and have a fighting chance every season. Rick has done that. Hes also had to deal with 2 starting QBs lost for the season with injuries, staff deaths, stadium moves, Zimmer half blind, etc. The man has done a very good job. Look around the league and you will see every team has holes. Most at much more priority positions than IOL. 

This coming season will be my 51st as a Vikings fan.  Frankly, I don't give a flying fickle finger of fate about anything other than winning the Super Bowl.  I'm not satisfied with being competitive, making the playoffs, winning the division or even winning the conference.  If the season doesn't end with Zygi and Zimmer hoisting a Lombardi Trophy, then it's a failure. 

I will agree that, for the most part, the front office has done a good job.  Yet, the woes of the offensive line are nothing new.  It's been a problem for awhile and whatever the Vikings have made to improve it has not worked all that well. We've gotten a couple of good players in the draft in the last few years.  One had a great rookie year, but a series of injuries derailed his once promising career (Kalil), and the other (O'Neil) had a bright rookie season...let's hope he can continue to develop and play well.  Everyone else has been mediocre or worse.

So, I have elevated my personal standard for what a successful season looks like.  That standard is easy to understand.  A Super Bowl win or everything else is worthless.

[vikesfan89]

36 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

This coming season will be my 51st as a Vikings fan.  Frankly, I don't give a flying fickle finger of fate about anything other than winning the Super Bowl.  I'm not satisfied with being competitive, making the playoffs, winning the division or even winning the conference.  If the season doesn't end with Zygi and Zimmer hoisting a Lombardi Trophy, then it's a failure. 

I will agree that, for the most part, the front office has done a good job.  Yet, the woes of the offensive line are nothing new.  It's been a problem for awhile and whatever the Vikings have made to improve it has not worked all that well. We've gotten a couple of good players in the draft in the last few years.  One had a great rookie year, but a series of injuries derailed his once promising career (Kalil), and the other (O'Neil) had a bright rookie season...let's hope he can continue to develop and play well.  Everyone else has been mediocre or worse.

So, I have elevated my personal standard for what a successful season looks like.  That standard is easy to understand.  A Super Bowl win or everything else is worthless.

Yet it doesn't do much good firing everybody when they don't win a super bowl

[PrplChilPill]

1 hour ago, boombap said:

True. But how many teams win a title every year? One. So the other 31 GMs fail every year and so many variables come in to play for a team to win a superbowl that it's so hard to quantify. The key is to build a roster that can compete and have a fighting chance every season. Rick has done that. Hes also had to deal with 2 starting QBs lost for the season with injuries, staff deaths, stadium moves, Zimmer half blind, etc. The man has done a very good job. Look around the league and you will see every team has holes. Most at much more priority positions than IOL. 

One playoff win. More than 1 season not even in the playoffs. Why any team would be envious of that, I have no idea.

[boombap]

1 hour ago, Virginia Viking said:

This coming season will be my 51st as a Vikings fan.  Frankly, I don't give a flying fickle finger of fate about anything other than winning the Super Bowl.  I'm not satisfied with being competitive, making the playoffs, winning the division or even winning the conference.  If the season doesn't end with Zygi and Zimmer hoisting a Lombardi Trophy, then it's a failure. 

I will agree that, for the most part, the front office has done a good job.  Yet, the woes of the offensive line are nothing new.  It's been a problem for awhile and whatever the Vikings have made to improve it has not worked all that well. We've gotten a couple of good players in the draft in the last few years.  One had a great rookie year, but a series of injuries derailed his once promising career (Kalil), and the other (O'Neil) had a bright rookie season...let's hope he can continue to develop and play well.  Everyone else has been mediocre or worse.

So, I have elevated my personal standard for what a successful season looks like.  That standard is easy to understand.  A Super Bowl win or everything else is worthless.

That great and all but they cant just fire the front office every season if they dont win a superbowl or you end up with a franchise like Arizona or Miami. So much of winning the title comes down to good fortune, lack of injuries and luck that it's an unfair way to judge a GMs success.

[Cearbhall]

2 hours ago, boombap said:

Most at much more priority positions than IOL.

I would be curious to know which positions you see as higher priority than OL?

QB, yes.

Is there anything else? No really.

DL is about equal in priority but I would place it a bit lower since the team has more control over masking a weak link.

CBs, yeah they are pretty important but ultimately they are less important than DL. Doesn't matter how good your DBs are if there is no pressure.

What am I missing? Is there anything else even in the same neighborhood of importance?

[Cearbhall]

56 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

Yet it doesn't do much good firing everybody when they don't win a super bowl

Yeah, that is why you give a GM more than one year.

How many GMs are in the league that have had more years than Rick Spielman to get it right that haven't at least been to a Super Bowl? Yeah, that guy owns his team. That is the only reason he still has a job. The owner doesn't want to fire himself.

In fact, all of those GMs have won a Super Bowl too except the one that saw his team collapse in the second half.

So right, you don't just fire everyone when they don't win it all, but when they can hardly even win a playoff game after that many years, and it is largely owing to the same problem every year coupled with the fact there is no evidence improvement is even being made in that area -- the decision to fire the GM should be pretty easy. Anything else shows feeble leadership from the owner.

But I agree, you can't just cycle the staff every year things don't work out. Nobody ever suggested that as a strategy.

Given where the team has been during the tenure of the GM, Josh Kline simple is not enough. He needs to show improvement in his ability to deal with the offensive line. To me, at this point it means he needs to trade for an offensive lineman. Going into the draft with a need so dire that you pretty much have to be locked into it is an unacceptable strategy. Even worse when it is in the area that as a GM you needed to be showing sings of improvement.