Ozzy Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, boombap said: Sweezy graded in the 40s last year. Why would you want him? Football is not all about fantasy football type grading on PFF, those are sometimes not always accurate or reflective of potential long term or upside. Sweezy was a former DL on NC State, transitioned to OL and again I feel is more athletic with more upside than Kline and is way cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikestyle Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 56 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Football is not all about fantasy football type grading on PFF, those are sometimes not always accurate or reflective of potential long term or upside. Sweezy was a former DL on NC State, transitioned to OL and again I feel is more athletic with more upside than Kline and is way cheaper. But Sweezy has been in the league for 7 years so he's not really an "upside" guy. After being in the league for that long most guys have already hit their peak. You don't see a lot of players vastly improving after they turn 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 1 hour ago, vikestyle said: But Sweezy has been in the league for 7 years so he's not really an "upside" guy. After being in the league for that long most guys have already hit their peak. You don't see a lot of players vastly improving after they turn 30. Maybe but if that is the case Josh Kline is only 29 and is probably hit his peak already and might be on the way down at a position he has played his entire life. Unlike Sweezy who is at a position he has played for only seven years so far. Again was a DL in college and linebacker in high school. Once more it is a pathetic state of the Vikings OL when one is debating the difference is such average football players in terms of their potential on the OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikestyle Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Maybe but if that is the case Josh Kline is only 29 and is probably hit his peak already and might be on the way down at a position he has played his entire life. Unlike Sweezy who is at a position he has played for only seven years so far. Again was a DL in college and linebacker in high school. Once more it is a pathetic state of the Vikings OL when one is debating the difference is such average football players in terms of their potential on the OL. Yeah I'm not saying Kline has much potential to be tapped into either, just think his peak was better than Sweezy's so you hope he can get back to that peak this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_K Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 On 3/22/2019 at 9:43 AM, VikeManDan said: I disagree 100% with this statement. They still need to draft at least 1 iOL in the first TWO rounds. There is a misunderstanding here. I didn't mean that they don't have to use ANY of their top 3 choices for an OL. I meant that they won't have to use ALL 3 of their top 3 choices for 3 offensive linemen. I said they don't have pressure to take offensive linemen with their top 3 choices. I didn't say AN offensive lineman, or 2 offensive linemen with their top 3 choices. I agree wholeheartedly with your 2nd sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikings209 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 18 hours ago, Ozzy said: Once more it is a pathetic state of the Vikings OL when one is debating the difference is such average football players in terms of their potential on the OL. While this may be true, it's ok for us to have an average OL. We did in 2017 and our offense was a top 10. We don't need a elite OL to be a great team. We only really need a average or maybe slightly better thatn average OL. If Kline can help us get there than that's awesome. I know everyone wants the best everything but that isn't realistic. Sometimes average is good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boombap Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 21 hours ago, Ozzy said: Football is not all about fantasy football type grading on PFF, those are sometimes not always accurate or reflective of potential long term or upside. Sweezy was a former DL on NC State, transitioned to OL and again I feel is more athletic with more upside than Kline and is way cheaper. Maybe it's just me but I'd prefer the guy that has played G at a high level in the not too distant past. Not saying Sweezy cant be good but hes never shown it on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, boombap said: Maybe it's just me but I'd prefer the guy that has played G at a high level in the not too distant past. Not saying Sweezy cant be good but hes never shown it on the field. How many All Pro or Pro Bowl teams has Kline made? None. To me that is a high level, and Kline is not that and probably never will be that. Would be great if he is just some awesome player for the Vikings but there is a reason the Titans released him I assume and signed Saffold instead at OG. 47 minutes ago, vikings209 said: While this may be true, it's ok for us to have an average OL. We did in 2017 and our offense was a top 10. We don't need a elite OL to be a great team. We only really need a average or maybe slightly better thatn average OL. If Kline can help us get there than that's awesome. I know everyone wants the best everything but that isn't realistic. Sometimes average is good enough. Sure that might be the case will see. Would be nice to have a OL that can protect because obviously our QB is not the best at throwing on the move or getting away from pressure so it makes having an above average OL more important than a team with a QB who can move around a little bit. As long as the Vikings can run the ball that will help but again the OL was a big reason why that did not happen much last season, that and the offensive system that they started the season out with as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Kline will never be an all pro. Neither will Sweezy. I’ll trust the guys evaluating the talent and coaching it. Sweezy has been nothing special at all. I don’t care if he started as a DL or a ballerina. The powers that be moved quickly on Kline after he was cut. They must have seen something they liked about him. They need to get another starter at OL in the draft. But w/o Remmers, with a new scheme, and a healthy Elflein, I’m confident we will have a better line next year. It can’t be worse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boombap Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Ozzy said: How many All Pro or Pro Bowl teams has Kline made? None. To me that is a high level, and Kline is not that and probably never will be that. Would be great if he is just some awesome player for the Vikings but there is a reason the Titans released him I assume and signed Saffold instead at OG. Sure that might be the case will see. Would be nice to have a OL that can protect because obviously our QB is not the best at throwing on the move or getting away from pressure so it makes having an above average OL more important than a team with a QB who can move around a little bit. As long as the Vikings can run the ball that will help but again the OL was a big reason why that did not happen much last season, that and the offensive system that they started the season out with as well. My confusion stems from the gap between Sweezy and what you want from a guard. He has been terrible thus far in his career. Terrible. Kline was quite good in 2016, 2017 and there's reasonable hope that he can reach that level of play again. Why do you prefer the guy that's never been any good? If you were arguing for Saffold or Paradis your argument would make more sense to me but saying a worse guard would provide better guard play is puzzling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 44 minutes ago, boombap said: My confusion stems from the gap between Sweezy and what you want from a guard. He has been terrible thus far in his career. Terrible. Kline was quite good in 2016, 2017 and there's reasonable hope that he can reach that level of play again. Why do you prefer the guy that's never been any good? If you were arguing for Saffold or Paradis your argument would make more sense to me but saying a worse guard would provide better guard play is puzzling. My confusion stems from where is your proof Kline is a "good" to "high level" player? What PFF? That is your proof? How often have you actually watched him play? You watch him in college? Who is to say Kline has ever been that good? Since he was a starter that makes him good? I say again make any All Pro or Pro bowl teams? Of course not... The difference between $5.2 million dollars a year to $1.5 to max $3.5 million a year is a lot in my mind. Thus cheaper and not all that much worse OG who is a better run blocker arguably which what I believe to be more upside. Maybe Kline will become this 'good' to 'high level' guard you call him, I just doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Ozzy said: My confusion stems from where is your proof Kline is a "good" to "high level" player? What PFF? That is your proof? How often have you actually watched him play? You watch him in college? Who is to say Kline has ever been that good? Since he was a starter that makes him good? I say again make any All Pro or Pro bowl teams? Of course not... The difference between $5.2 million dollars a year to $1.5 to max $3.5 million a year is a lot in my mind. Thus cheaper and not all that much worse OG who is a better run blocker arguably which what I believe to be more upside. Maybe Kline will become this 'good' to 'high level' guard you call him, I just doubt it. So you won't use PFF but you use pro bowls as an argument? Ok bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikestyle Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Ozzy said: My confusion stems from where is your proof Kline is a "good" to "high level" player? What PFF? That is your proof? How often have you actually watched him play? You watch him in college? Who is to say Kline has ever been that good? Since he was a starter that makes him good? I say again make any All Pro or Pro bowl teams? Of course not... The difference between $5.2 million dollars a year to $1.5 to max $3.5 million a year is a lot in my mind. Thus cheaper and not all that much worse OG who is a better run blocker arguably which what I believe to be more upside. Maybe Kline will become this 'good' to 'high level' guard you call him, I just doubt it. What does watching him in college have to do with anything? Did you watch J.R. Sweezy in college? He lined up on the wrong side of the football. You think J.R. Sweezy is an "upside" guy, but Kline doesn't get any of that benefit of the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 55 minutes ago, vikestyle said: What does watching him in college have to do with anything? Did you watch J.R. Sweezy in college? He lined up on the wrong side of the football. You think J.R. Sweezy is an "upside" guy, but Kline doesn't get any of that benefit of the doubt. YEah I watched Sweezy in college and have watched his development so far in the NFL. Kline not as much but do not get to follow much Kent State football but there is a reason he was a UDFA obviously. I question where this love of Josh Kline is coming from unless some here just blatantly accept anyone and everyone the Vikings sign as a great pickup. Sure rip on Sweezy I do not really care, but Kline deserves just as much critique as Sweezy does. But no lock him up for a future star guard and high level player, whatever. Sweezy has started more than Kline in the NFL and more consistently has, but no grade everything on PFF or whatever source people are gaining this from, a some what one sided number and run with it. Let me guess Kline has a better "grade' than Sweezy this past year or whatever so people consider him a superior player? Great if the NFL was ran like a fantasy football team that is awesome, great sign for the Vikings, wait you paid him $15 million over three years. Maybe it will work out, maybe it will not but would be nice if people commented on players based on watching them play instead of a grade they see on the internet someone else gave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, Ozzy said: But no lock him up for a future star guard and high level player, whatever. No one said that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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