Which is More Valuable: Interior or Edge Rush?

[BullsandBroncos]

Great interior pass rushers are harder to find than edge rushers. A 25 year old Aaron Donald or Geno Atkins is a bigger premium than an edge rusher. Imagine if the Bears right now or Broncos right now had an elite interior threat to add to their pass rush.

[JaguarCrazy2832]

3 hours ago, BullsandBroncos said:

Great interior pass rushers are harder to find than edge rushers. A 25 year old Aaron Donald or Geno Atkins is a bigger premium than an edge rusher. Imagine if the Bears right now or Broncos right now had an elite interior threat to add to their pass rush.

Having Khalil Mack/Von Miller helps...its a chicken/egg scenario

[BullsandBroncos]

3 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Having Khalil Mack/Von Miller helps...its a chicken/egg scenario

Very true. Can't tell you how many sacks Bradley Chubb and Miller missed out on this year though because of little interior push. A good interior rush at least would've made us split a game with KC.

[11sanchez11]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-edge-vs-interior-which-pass-rusher-reigns-supreme

PFF says edge is more improtant

Pressure rates in 2017 for:
Edge: 12.02% (n = 42547)
Interior: 8.22% (n = 35302)
Nose: 6.43% (n = 8000)
Off-the-ball LB/SCB: 16.85% (n = 6473)

EPA generated on pressures in 2017 for:
Only edge pressure: -0.303 (n = 3489)
Only interior pressure: -0.178 (n = 1740)
Only nose pressure: -0.213 (n = 298)
Only off-the-ball LB/SCB pressure: -0.286 (n = 696)
Edge and interior pressure: -0.632 (n = 802)
Edge and nose pressure: -0.482 (n = 102)
Interior and nose pressure: -0.275 (n = 58)

Sack rates in 2017 for:
Edge: 1.83%
Interior: 0.97%
Nose: 0.79%
Off-the-ball LB/SCB: 2.52%

Forced fumble rates in 2017 for:
Edge: 0.28%
Interior: 0.07%
Nose: 0.06%
Off-the-ball LB/SCB: 0.25%

Time to pressure in 2017 for:
Only edge pressure: 2.43 seconds
Only interior pressure: 2.46 seconds
Only nose pressure: 2.50 seconds
Only off-the-ball LB/SCB pressure: 2.15 seconds
Edge and interior pressure: 2.45 seconds
Edge and nose pressure: 2.51 seconds
Interior and nose pressure: 2.43 seconds

Quote

The top five interior pass-rushers (Donald, Fletcher Cox, DeForest Buckner, Geno Atkins, and Gerald McCoy) cost the opposition 75.30 expected points, averaged 2.34 seconds per solo pressure and saw offenses gain 4.1 yards per play. The top five edge rushers (Bosa, DeMarcus Lawrence, Cam Jordan, Melvin Ingram, and Von Miller) cost the offense 109.16 expected points, averaged 2.29 seconds per solo pressure and saw the offense gain 3.1 yards per play.

Reasons why I think edge pressure or edge rushers could be more valuable:

they are more athletic so they can finish better
interior pressure is more often in the qbs vision so they can escape or throw away the ball easier
more turnovers from edge because the qb sees it less often
easier to double interior players
interior players are doubled more often
edge players generally play a higher % of snaps

[11sanchez11]

But if you could get interior pressure from LBers instead of lineman that could equal things out

[El Ramster]

42 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

But if you could get interior pressure from LBers instead of lineman that could equal things out

Run those numbers if you had 5 Donald’s. It’s why he’s so valuable. There are non. 

[11sanchez11]

14 minutes ago, El ramster said:

Run those numbers if you had 5 Donald’s. It’s why he’s so valuable. There are non. 

They had something in there about this. On Donald solo pressures (which I'm pretty sure means he was the only player on his team getting pressure) the offense averaged 4.9 yards per play. For Bosa it was at at 2.9. And for the top 5 edge players it averaged 3.1. So even in comparison to Donald the edge players created more havoc.

Edited May 5, 2019 by 11sanchez11

[El Ramster]

3 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

They had something in there about this. On Donald solo pressures (which I'm pretty sure means he was the only player on his team getting pressure) the offense averaged 4.9 yards per play. For Bosa it was at at 2.9. And for the top 5 edge players it averaged 3.1. So even in comparison to Donald the edge players created more havoc.

Gimme dat link baby. But also is this taking into account the direction where the run is going? Also supporting staff? Because Donald’s supporting cast was much better when Talib was on than off. 

[11sanchez11]

1 minute ago, El ramster said:

Gimme dat link baby

The link is in the long post above. The Donald part is at the end in the "conclusion" section.

 

2 minutes ago, El ramster said:

But also is this taking into account the direction where the run is going?

You can't get pressure on a run play. Lol

2 minutes ago, El ramster said:

Also supporting staff? Because Donald’s supporting cast was much better when Talib was on than off. 

I would probably say no.

[sp6488]

On 3/24/2019 at 2:12 PM, Jakuvious said:

If it's the same amount of pressure being generated, interior. But interior pressure is harder and the guys that are great at it are rarer, so you may still be better off and have more production from say, the 10th best edge rusher, than you would from the 10th best interior rusher.

Good way to articulate this. 

 

[KellChippy]

15 hours ago, 11sanchez11 said:

They had something in there about this. On Donald solo pressures (which I'm pretty sure means he was the only player on his team getting pressure) the offense averaged 4.9 yards per play. For Bosa it was at at 2.9. And for the top 5 edge players it averaged 3.1. So even in comparison to Donald the edge players created more havoc.

I wouldn’t put much stock in the stats where they’re only comparing 5 people at each position in only one season.  Donald is likely a pretty significant outlier in many areas.  He gets many more pressures at a higher rate than any other interior player.  Teams prepare for that and plan accordingly and use unique strategies.

The league wide stats hold more weight, especially that edge rushers caused 4x as many forced fumbles per pressure as interior. Edge rushers were also 50% more likely to generate pressure.  

This doesn’t factor situational football though. Based on these numbers, you should blitz every play.

edit: Disregarding the article, I do think having quality edge players is more important as they generally have more opportunities to cause game changing plays.  

If I’m building a team, I’m not counting on finding a Donald level interior rusher, and I think a good edge player is more valuable than a good interior player.

Edited May 5, 2019 by KellChippy

[Nzd07]

I think edge rush is more impactful, but it's harder to find interior guys who can both generate pressure and not be a liability in the run game. Thus, elite interior players have more value.

[Hunter2_1]

PFF's conclusion from Sanchez' link;

 

A good place to end this discussion (for the time being) is where the elite pass-rushers at each position compare.

Aaron Donald was an absolute stud last season, earning a 99.9 pass-rush grade and amassing 91 quarterback pressures, both of which led the league. But his impact was perhaps not as tremendous as one might imagine. On Donald’s solo pressures (70, including nullified plays), the opposing offense gained 4.9 yards per play and lost a total of 16.96 expected points. Compare this to the highest-graded edge rusher, Joey Bosa, whose solo pressures (46) cost the offense 41.89 expected points and resulted in 2.9 yards per play. Donald was quicker than average on solo pressures at 2.28 seconds per pressure which was still slower than Bosa who averaged just 2.22 seconds per solo pressure. Doing this comparison for the five highest-graded pass-rushers at each position also yields interesting results. The top five interior pass-rushers (Donald, Fletcher Cox, DeForest Buckner, Geno Atkins, and Gerald McCoy) cost the opposition 75.30 expected points, averaged 2.34 seconds per solo pressure and saw offenses gain 4.1 yards per play. The top five edge rushers (Bosa, DeMarcus Lawrence, Cam Jordan, Melvin Ingram, and Von Miller) cost the offense 109.16 expected points, averaged 2.29 seconds per solo pressure and saw the offense gain 3.1 yards per play.

Including pressures where other players were involved doesn’t change much. Pressures involving Donald cost the opposition 28.28 expected points, took an average of 2.33 seconds and resulted in 3.4 yards per play. Pressures involving Bosa cost the offense 68.20 expected points, took 2.18 seconds on average and resulted in 1.8 yards per play. Taking away plays that resulted in turnovers from Bosa’s total still leaves Bosa ahead of Donald by over 11 expected points lost.

Donald is a tremendous player who is certainly deserving of the acclaim he has received as the top player in the PFF 50 rankings. But production and value do not always align. Donald was utterly dominant with Jeff Fisher at the helm and that was not nearly enough to move the needle for the Rams. Enter boy genius Sean McVay and the rest is recent history.

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Hunter2_1

[MossyMoss]

I went with interior, but great interior lines men are hard to find. 

[Bobby816]

Hands down edge rush. The jets have had interior pass rush for years and it hasn't equaled a good defense. When we haven't had an edge the whole time.