Honestly do you think we're better?

[Darbsk]

23 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I can't count Mack as a part of this team last year since he did not play a single snap for us and since our front office has such great timing we say zero benefit last year from losing him.

I believe that's why the OP said 'on paper'. As in has the personnel listed on the roster improved or not?

[true2form]

You could say we are worse on paper for this time period.  That's perfectly fine and understandable.  Do a comparison like this after the draft to see how opinions change.  Then one right before week one as well since Mack won't be factored in to that.

[Dessie]

3 minutes ago, true2form said:

You could say we are worse on paper for this time period.  That's perfectly fine and understandable.  Do a comparison like this after the draft to see how opinions change.  Then one right before week one as well since Mack won't be factored in to that.

Or maybe a comparison of the roster at the start of free agency in 18 and this year? 

[true2form]

2 minutes ago, Dessie said:

Or maybe a comparison of the roster at the start of free agency in 18 and this year? 

If you're trying to compare us with and without Mack I guess.  Seems a bit pointless though.  We all agree having Mack is better than not having him talent wise.

[drfrey13]

2 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I believe that's why the OP said 'on paper'. As in has the personnel listed on the roster improved or not?

This whole exercise is pointless because of the moves we made and when we made them.  What are we implying?  The only thing that matters is what the roster looks like during the season.  I am sure there were some teams that looked a lot better on paper on March 12 than they did on March 13th.  Once we use the picks we got for Mack then you can compare how we look relative to the teams with Mack.  I do not like everything the FO has done but picking a point before the process begins and randomly comparing it to a point in the middle of the process is not a good way to make a comparison.  If you are going to include Mack and Cooper then you have to include the 3 1st round picks in your comparison.  

[NightTrainLane]

29 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

This whole exercise is pointless because of the moves we made and when we made them.  What are we implying?  The only thing that matters is what the roster looks like during the season.  I am sure there were some teams that looked a lot better on paper on March 12 than they did on March 13th.  Once we use the picks we got for Mack then you can compare how we look relative to the teams with Mack.  I do not like everything the FO has done but picking a point before the process begins and randomly comparing it to a point in the middle of the process is not a good way to make a comparison.  If you are going to include Mack and Cooper then you have to include the 3 1st round picks in your comparison.  

Thank you.

You can't judge this current roster vs this time last year because of how much roster value has been converted to draft capitol.

[Darbsk]

15 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

This whole exercise is pointless because of the moves we made and when we made them.  What are we implying?  The only thing that matters is what the roster looks like during the season.  I am sure there were some teams that looked a lot better on paper on March 12 than they did on March 13th.  Once we use the picks we got for Mack then you can compare how we look relative to the teams with Mack.  I do not like everything the FO has done but picking a point before the process begins and randomly comparing it to a point in the middle of the process is not a good way to make a comparison.  If you are going to include Mack and Cooper then you have to include the 3 1st round picks in your comparison.  

Strange, if you feel it's pointless, why respond? 

I think it's pretty interesting to see where we are right now as compared to a year ago. It's a pretty black and white comparison as we don't factor in form, injuries, schemes etc. but of course you're right there are a myriad things can change and dictate how the team actually plays.

[G]

On 3/25/2019 at 4:47 AM, Darbsk said:

 

I think the point is (correct me if I'm wrong here G ) to look at the actual personnel we have and gauge whether the additions and subtractions have made the roster better.

You are CORRECT sir...

Jerry's reply is probably how we ALL would feel.

It's just to see we haven't upgraded talent at this time. We WILL win more games even if every draft pick dies before camp (Leon Bender I think was one) because of chemistry and more time in the same system for our vets.

I didn't include last years draft to not include this years. We 'could' trade those picks for Bosa, or one of the FA DE's that's tagged, but that's not the point of why I posted. I just know a lot of the Raider fans I talk to think we're better and that is delusional IMO. None of them want to talk with me because I've gone dark on the team until proven otherwise. Bosa, White, Greedy and Lawrence in the draft and we are better. The whole point of talking here is to blab as NONE OF US will make a difference with the product on the field unless Mayock or Gruden has been in here the whole time. Maybe HB/EA is actually Mark Davis?!?

I thought this was a discussion web site where people discussed 'what ifs' and such but honestly I didn't think a single person would discuss this at all because it's not 'positive' and many here just want to drink the kool-aid and I get that. I use to and 19-0 with Crappy was my hopes and dreams. (Where is that guy?) If noting else this site is entertainment value until the season begins. I'll be Sir ''G"rumps-a-lot, HB will be EA. I think BP use to be more positive until the Jawalrus lack-o-muscle was drafted above his guys. Frankie is WR 6'3 220lbs only please and thank you...Yep quite the entertainment factor here.    

[Bitty 2.0]

I honestly can’t see how we’re not.

Were downgraded at three spots DE, OG and TE but we are upgraded at 3 WR spots, LT, MLB and safety.

 

[drfrey13]

6 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Strange, if you feel it's pointless, why respond? 

I think it's pretty interesting to see where we are right now as compared to a year ago. It's a pretty black and white comparison as we don't factor in form, injuries, schemes etc. but of course you're right there are a myriad things can change and dictate how the team actually plays.

The OP is trying to imply that we are worse but ignoring all the other factors.  If every other team lost its best player + one of its top 3 players and had nothing to show for it they would all most likely look worse.  I was just pointing out how we could make it better which was my point in responding.  A better option would be to compare our roster from a year ago or our week one roster with the team right now and state what you think we should do the rest of the off-season to make the team better than it was last year.  And yes I think no matter what in a comparison of last year using Mack is utterly stupid because he never played a down for us.  Gruden and RM where dumb in how and when they traded Mack.

That  is like me doing a mid season comparison and not counting Mack and Cooper because they had already been traded but including the picks we got for them.  It would make our team much more improved than it really was.  I understand wanting to have discussion because that is what we do here and I truly enjoy everyone's thoughts and opinions.  I have learned a lot from the posters here and have had many hours of just entertaining discussions but when there is a conclusion being made with incomplete information I feel the need to point it out.

[true2form]

13 hours ago, G said:

You are CORRECT sir...

Jerry's reply is probably how we ALL would feel.

It's just to see we haven't upgraded talent at this time. We WILL win more games even if every draft pick dies before camp (Leon Bender I think was one) because of chemistry and more time in the same system for our vets.

I didn't include last years draft to not include this years. We 'could' trade those picks for Bosa, or one of the FA DE's that's tagged, but that's not the point of why I posted. I just know a lot of the Raider fans I talk to think we're better and that is delusional IMO. None of them want to talk with me because I've gone dark on the team until proven otherwise. Bosa, White, Greedy and Lawrence in the draft and we are better. The whole point of talking here is to blab as NONE OF US will make a difference with the product on the field unless Mayock or Gruden has been in here the whole time. Maybe HB/EA is actually Mark Davis?!?

I thought this was a discussion web site where people discussed 'what ifs' and such but honestly I didn't think a single person would discuss this at all because it's not 'positive' and many here just want to drink the kool-aid and I get that. I use to and 19-0 with Crappy was my hopes and dreams. (Where is that guy?) If noting else this site is entertainment value until the season begins. I'll be Sir ''G"rumps-a-lot, HB will be EA. I think BP use to be more positive until the Jawalrus lack-o-muscle was drafted above his guys. Frankie is WR 6'3 220lbs only please and thank you...Yep quite the entertainment factor here.    

You understand what hypocrisy is correct?

Don't bash people for wanting do the same thing you are. 🙄

[G]

5 hours ago, true2form said:

You understand what hypocrisy is correct?

Don't bash people for wanting do the same thing you are. 🙄

From Wiki   Hypocrisy is the contrivance of a false appearance of virtue or goodness, while concealing real character or inclinations, especially with respect to religious and moral beliefs; hence, in a general sense, hypocrisy may involve dissimulation, pretense, or a sham. Hypocrisy is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another. 

I'm assuming the last part is the intended point. I'm not bashing I'm saying that is what the site is. Discuss and such. What we'd like the team to do, etc. I'm making fun of the fact that 'especially in the off season there really isn't much else to do but 'speculate' or all we'd hear is crickets chirping. Hence why were all here. 

After reading my post several times maybe the misunderstanding is the fact that I quote Darbsk but just the first sentence is directly related to him. The rest is just me responding to the whole of the post and the site in general. You say the word 'pointless' but in the end people talking about something they have no control over is 'pointless' except for the fact it entertains us. 

[true2form]

5 hours ago, G said:

From Wiki   Hypocrisy is the contrivance of a false appearance of virtue or goodness, while concealing real character or inclinations, especially with respect to religious and moral beliefs; hence, in a general sense, hypocrisy may involve dissimulation, pretense, or a sham. Hypocrisy is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another. 

I'm assuming the last part is the intended point. I'm not bashing I'm saying that is what the site is. Discuss and such. What we'd like the team to do, etc. I'm making fun of the fact that 'especially in the off season there really isn't much else to do but 'speculate' or all we'd hear is crickets chirping. Hence why were all here. 

After reading my post several times maybe the misunderstanding is the fact that I quote Darbsk but just the first sentence is directly related to him. The rest is just me responding to the whole of the post and the site in general. You say the word 'pointless' but in the end people talking about something they have no control over is 'pointless' except for the fact it entertains us. 

This.

I thought this was a discussion web site where people discussed 'what ifs' and such but honestly I didn't think a single person would discuss this at all because it's not 'positive' and many here just want to drink the kool-aid and I get that.

 

It is a discussion forum and people are discussing it.  Doesn't matter if they don't agree with you or aren't discussing it the way you wanted is my point.

[Geezy]

i think this team will be better without a doubt. There will be no distractions going into the season (Mack holdout, multiple player Trade rumors etc) Were going into the season, with Gruden's guys.

 

We were playing better as the season went on. Guenther is a quality DC and the defense improved throughout the season, despite a severe lack of talent.

 

Year 2 in Gruden's offense is going to be huge for Carr, he looked confused and overwhelmed early in the season. As the season wore on, he looked to be in a lot better command of the offense. Yes, there were a ton of check downs, but he had bad protection and WRs weren't separating. That wont be an issue this season.

 

Now with the influx of talent In FA, and assuming we nail most of our picks, we will be a lot more talented to a man. We really need to nail these next two drafts.

 

Really like where we are headed, it seems like Gruden and Mayock are on the same page, but really, its going to come down to how we draft these next two years if we really are going to be in contention soon or not.  

[Darbsk]

23 hours ago, Geezy said:

i think this team will be better without a doubt. There will be no distractions going into the season (Mack holdout, multiple player Trade rumors etc) Were going into the season, with Gruden's guys.

 

We were playing better as the season went on. Guenther is a quality DC and the defense improved throughout the season, despite a severe lack of talent.

 

Year 2 in Gruden's offense is going to be huge for Carr, he looked confused and overwhelmed early in the season. As the season wore on, he looked to be in a lot better command of the offense. Yes, there were a ton of check downs, but he had bad protection and WRs weren't separating. That wont be an issue this season.

 

Now with the influx of talent In FA, and assuming we nail most of our picks, we will be a lot more talented to a man. We really need to nail these next two drafts.

 

Really like where we are headed, it seems like Gruden and Mayock are on the same page, but really, its going to come down to how we draft these next two years if we really are going to be in contention soon or not.  

I'm not so sure that is the case though. When you say influx of talent it seems like we had waves of talent streaming in but in reality what we've done is:

Added Antonio Brown who is a star no doubt.
We have a gaping hole at RB and a decent third down back in Richard.
Swapped Cooper and Jordy Nelson for Williams and JJ Nelson which is a downgrade (though I did agree with the Cooper trade).
Let our Pro Bowl TE leave in FA and have a only run blocker and untested potential there.
Upgraded our LT spot to good with Trent Brown while downgrading at guard (basically if we stay healthy though we'll upgrade here).
We basically have nothing at DE but Key and his potential which can be debated.
Added Burfict who could be a bargain or complete distraction (I happen to like this move but it's not without question marks).
Swapped Gilchrist for Joyner a mild upgrade.
Swapped Melvin for Lawson, slight downgrade in my book.

Now, I'm not trying to be at all negative and we do have a nice haul of draft picks but it's not like we did a Rams from a year ago and brought in a host of stars. I just think we should all be a little cautious about our 'upgrades' until we see them actually produce.

IF we use those draft picks wisely we should be undoubtedly better than last year but it's not a slam dunk of upgrades which I think a lot of us were expecting and we are heavily relying on hitting on draft picks which, with even the greatest will in the world is 50/50. I can see potential for improvement but I'm not sold just yet.