SilverNBlackFan Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: How do you think Brady would have looked on our team last season? Garbage weapons, no time to pass or assess the field. Do you think Brady would have made the pro bowl? Taken us to the playoffs? Super Bowl? If not do you think he would look old, washed and appeared like he should retire? Why are you bringing up last year? BP clearly stated his issue with Carr is a deficiency in his game that has dated back to his college days. There was no mention of last season in his post. But you Carr homers love to bring up last year as an excuse, because for the first time in years Carr didnt have top tier protection or two good receivers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: My take on Carr is simple. The main issue I had with him at Fresno was his skittishness in the pocket. I hoped to see progression in that area and frankly, he's regressed where that is concerned. Talent around him won't help him in this area. He has to be more poise. It's a part of his game that is truly lacking and should be progressed at this stage of his career. Ok. That is one of his limitations. What do you do about it? Of course, you work with him but you make changes to the team so that limitation does stop you from having production. Strong pass blocking oline, better run game, more targets can get open and create YAC. Doesn't it look like we are doing those things. You also plan for the future. strengthen the defense so that when you don't have the level of production that a supported Carr can give, you still have a chance to win games. You also turn over every stone to find the QB with things you think you can develop into a winner. I think that is what we will do for the future. Build a strong defense that will be in place i and when we don't possibly have a strong offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Nah bro, he would have "improvised" and made jordy and seth look like moss and edelman. I hope you're joking.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I hope you're joking.... . I'm joking man chillax. Not even Rodgers could save us last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: Why are you bringing up last year? BP clearly stated his issue with Carr is a deficiency in his game that has dated back to his college days. There was no mention of last season in his post. But you Carr homers love to bring up last year as an excuse, because for the first time in years Carr didnt have top tier protection or two good receivers. Carr's first 3 seasons were amongst the best to ever play the game. His first 2 seasons in the league 1 QB had more career TD passes (Marino) and was considered one of the top 3 QB's to build a franchise around. Crabtree is a good WR? That is news to me. He was average in SF and average in Balt and now unemployed. You don't think Carr elevated his production? If Cooper is the world beater that you all claim why would Gruden and Co. give up on a 24 year old stud and not chose to build around him? Do not bring up Mack either, it's a completely different situation with Cooper. Elite WR's can preform well into their 30's and Mack's "elite window is 3ish more years. Edited April 9, 2019 by Frankie2Gunz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Just now, MrOaktown_56 said: . I'm joking man chillax. Not even Rodgers could save us last year. Haha I thought so... You get the point I'm trying to prove. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 51 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: How do you think Brady would have looked on our team last season? Garbage weapons, no time to pass or assess the field. Do you think Brady would have made the pro bowl? Taken us to the playoffs? Super Bowl? If not do you think he would look old, washed and appeared like he should retire? You are wearing this line out. I think Brady wouldn;t have succumbed to pressure and folded in the pocket the way Carr did and has his entire career. This Brady argument is so dumb.... I am a Carr guy. But at some level this far into his career he's shown who he is. Even his breakout year, he was shaky against pressure and had a low YPA average. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 39 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said: don't have a love affair with Carr. I'm simply trying to see all the angles. Thank you... It's so black and white. You either have to love him or hate him with some of these guys. Carr is the least of the Raiders worries. He needs to improve, but he's not a terrible QB. You can win with Carr.... the question is can he elevate a team to the playoffs? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Carr's first 3 seasons were amongst the best to ever play the game. His first 2 seasons in the league 1 QB had more career TD passes (Marino) and was considered one of the top 3 QB's to build a franchise around. Then he got hurt and exposed. 9 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Crabtree is a good WR? That is news to me. He was average in SF and average in Balt and now unemployed. You don't think Carr elevated his production. Not really. Crabtree in SF averaged (excluding the year he tore his Achilles) 65 REC, 808 Yards, 6 Touchdowns. 3 years in Oakland he averaged 77 Rec, 847 Yards, 8 Touchdowns. And remember, in SF Crabtree played in a run first offense with a running QB in Kap. Slight uptick in TD catches, but for the most part Crab was the same guy hes always been. Carr didnt elevate him. I dont know who Carr has elevated in his career besides maybe Jalen Richard. He sure does stuff his stats. 9 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: If Cooper is the world beater that you all claim why would Gruden and Co. give up on a 24 year old stud and not chose to build around him? We've beaten the Cooper topic to death. Again, BP brought up Carr being skittish in the pocket and you've done nothing but regurgitate excuses and veer off topic as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 33 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: Why are you bringing up last year? BP clearly stated his issue with Carr is a deficiency in his game that has dated back to his college days. There was no mention of last season in his post. But you Carr homers love to bring up last year as an excuse, because for the first time in years Carr didnt have top tier protection or two good receivers. Exactly. My issues with Carr are in his QB DNA. And all anyone wants to talk about is last season in a vacuum. I'm trying to look at his progression year to year in areas of playing QB. Talent will always evolve around a QB in his career. It's how he responds and progresses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 35 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said: Ok. That is one of his limitations. What do you do about it? Of course, you work with him but you make changes to the team so that limitation does stop you from having production. Strong pass blocking oline, better run game, more targets can get open and create YAC. Doesn't it look like we are doing those things. You also plan for the future. strengthen the defense so that when you don't have the level of production that a supported Carr can give, you still have a chance to win games. You also turn over every stone to find the QB with things you think you can develop into a winner. I think that is what we will do for the future. Build a strong defense that will be in place i and when we don't possibly have a strong offense. 100%. You protect him and give him short area quickness targets to get open quick underneath for him. The foundation is forming. Problem is even 2016, KC had his number why? Because they need he didn't like pressure so that will be a constant against defenses who win upfront. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 minute ago, SilverNBlackFan said: Then he got hurt and exposed. Not really. Crabtree in SF averaged (excluding the year he tore his Achilles) 65 REC, 808 Yards, 6 Touchdowns. 3 years in Oakland he averaged 77 Rec, 847 Yards, 8 Touchdowns. And remember, in SF Crabtree played in a run first offense with a running QB in Kap. Slight uptick in TD catches, but for the most part Crab was the same guy hes always been. Carr didnt elevate him. I dont know who Carr has elevated in his career besides maybe Jalen Richard. He sure does stuff his stats. We've beaten the Cooper topic to death. Again, BP brought up Carr being skittish in the pocket and you've done nothing but regurgitate excuses and veer off topic as usual. What QB isn't "skittish" with pressure? Qb's who are mobile? Carr is not mobile when compared to WIlson but by no means is he immobile like Brady. Why are edge rushers and interior D lineman who can provide pressure up the middle so coveted? Because pressuring QB's is a key to success, if you cant pressure a QB they will pick anyone apart. Look at film of pro clipboard holder Nick Mullins pick us apart like a vulture on roadkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: What QB isn't "skittish" with pressure? Qb's who are mobile? Carr is not mobile when compared to WIlson but by no means is he immobile like Brady. Why are edge rushers and interior D lineman who can provide pressure up the middle so coveted? Because pressuring QB's is a key to success, if you cant pressure a QB they will pick anyone apart. Look at film of pro clipboard holder Nick Mullins pick us apart like a vulture on roadkill. No.... don't try that cop out of an argument. Some QBs can't handle pressure. They panic, hear footsteps and fold. That's been Carr's weakness since college. Plenty of non-mobile QBs are poised in the pocket. Don't succumb to pressure and deliver under duress. We've seen Carr do this (Colts last year) but far to often he's panicking. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: 100%. You protect him and give him short area quickness targets to get open quick underneath for him. The foundation is forming. Problem is even 2016, KC had his number why? Because they need he didn't like pressure so that will be a constant against defenses who win upfront. That is true but you can't build the perfect team these days, you do your best to build a winner. Carr can win with this scenario and it allows you to build the defense and plan for the future of the team. Even with the 2 losses to KC, we are a 3 loss team before Carr goes down. (F you Penn, I'll never forgive him). SD and Den, in terms of pressure, will be the two teams we need to prepare for imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 31 minutes ago, big_palooka said: No.... don't try that cop out of an argument. Some QBs can't handle pressure. They panic, hear footsteps and fold. That's been Carr's weakness since college. Plenty of non-mobile QBs are poised in the pocket. Don't succumb to pressure and deliver under duress. We've seen Carr do this (Colts last year) but far to often he's panicking. I also want to point out that just because a QB isn't standing and taking a hit or running out of the pocket successfully doesn't mean he is panicking. I'm not saying that Carr's awareness and pocket clock aren't areas he can improve. They ARE. What I'm saying is that in these situations the defender has the advantage and the QB is vulnerable. It cuts both ways. You want a guy to be able to escape some rushes and anticipate a collapsing pocket but you also want a guy to mitigated risks and live for the next down. The good OCs and Qb tandems use their skills, playcalling, weapons and knowledge to win. Yeah Carr may have a faster clock and it's not one of his sharpest weapons to break the pocket to extend plays. You mitigate those things to win. I think Gruden and Carr have the chance this year to really hit the sweet spot in all these categories. That is why I think Carr is safe this year and why I think we'll have success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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