big_palooka Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Carr is a QB who will get you what is there. He can't create. That's called a game manager. Gruden (and most of us) want a QB who can create. That is a franchise QB. A QB who can create, makes the offense and skill positions around him better. You can have good skill position players and excel. The fact everyone is crying for a #1 WR to help the game manager (Carr) is more telling about the QB that the need for a #1 WR. Carr can't create. So that #1 WR will never reach that potential unless he's just a Julio Jones level talent who can take over a game. Because Carr will struggle getting it to him consistently. See OBJ in Cleveland. Arguable top 5 WR with an average QB and he's down 20 yards per game this year so far. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Here is a fantasy site that has some good stats and rankings beyond what you get at the major sites. This is Carr's profile. https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/derek-carr/ Jacob's is pretty good also. I do not know how accurate they are but it say Jacobs is better against stacked boxes then regular or light. I think that says a lot about him and our run blocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, drfrey13 said: Graham is not close to the same player he was with Brees and Colston was the 4th to last pick in the 2006 draft. I would bet Brees had more of an impact on him then he had on Brees. Actualy 2 of Bree's best seasons Colston only started 5 games and had 520 yards receiving with no Graham. not going to say Brees had no weapons or even that Carr's weapons are better but Brees has been elite no matter who is out there with him. If you just want to compare QB to QB Bree's worst season since joining NO is just a little bit less than Carr's best season. Carr has made some improvements this year but still needs to do more. He looks like he is starting to trust the players around him but I do not think he trusts himself yet. Still to conservative. You want to limit mistakes but he needs to take more chances and be more aware of the situation. Late in the game down by for a 3 yard pass on 3rd and 8 is not an option. You should not be playing field position under those circumstances. A couple of thoughts i have: 1. The larger point i was trying to make was that every QB has had a #1 receiver if some sort. When Carr had both Cooper and Crabtree he was pretty good. Since then he’s been pretty bad. 2. Drew Brees is probably a top 5-10 all time QB. He’s been overshadowed by Manning and Brady but the dude has certainly been very very good. Outside of Wilson i can’t say that anyone drafted in the last 10 years is on his level. I personally can’t judge Carr on that level considering how difficult it is to find guys to match that level. 3. I completely agree that it is the most frustrating thing to see Carr throw a 7 yard pass to guy with a DB draped on him when it’s 3rd and 10. No one is going to break the tackle and gain yards. Stop try to make it happen Gretchen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 2 hours ago, drfrey13 said: A #1 WR is a waste of time until Carr decides to be more aggressive. He is getting better but if AB was on the team he would have already started on Carr. Zay Jones might be a really good pick up for Carr since he excels at the things Carr is comfortable doing. Now I am not saying Carr does not have the capability to do these things but that he does not have the capacity. There is a huge difference between a #1 WR and PS though. You're telling me that AB doesn't make a difference on this team? Julio Jones doesn't help Matt Ryan? Davante Adams? Hopkins? Gronk/Edelman/Welker/Moss? Everyone wants to bring up Brees. Ok, here's some stats from 2014. Drew Brees was just shy of 5K yards and had 33 TD. He had no 1K WRs, no true #1 that you speak of. However, he did have play makers in the form of Mark Ingram, Jimmy Graham, Kenny Stills, Marques Colston, Brandin Cooks, etc Is it asking too much to have play makers for Carr? They don't have to be #1 guys, but we need some. Oh and the Saints went 7-9 that year, despite having all of that firepower. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Carr looks good with good oline play..... hmmm lol People expect Carr to make guys miss and bomb it 50 yards in the past lol.... it’s all about the trenches. Pats always have a solid line, so do the the Packers. They pride themselves on OLine. Funny how baker mayfield is struggling so bad, his oline is trash.... QBs look good if they are behind a good oline, if the oline is trash, they will look trash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 5 hours ago, big_palooka said: Carr is a QB who will get you what is there. He can't create. That's called a game manager. Gruden (and most of us) want a QB who can create. That is a franchise QB. A QB who can create, makes the offense and skill positions around him better. You can have good skill position players and excel. The fact everyone is crying for a #1 WR to help the game manager (Carr) is more telling about the QB that the need for a #1 WR. Carr can't create. So that #1 WR will never reach that potential unless he's just a Julio Jones level talent who can take over a game. Because Carr will struggle getting it to him consistently. See OBJ in Cleveland. Arguable top 5 WR with an average QB and he's down 20 yards per game this year so far. Baker is not average right now. He looks like bottom 5 in the league. There are barely any qb's in the league that can elevate the WR/receiving talent around them. Right now, we have a bottom 5 WR group in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 7 hours ago, true2form said: There is a huge difference between a #1 WR and PS though. You're telling me that AB doesn't make a difference on this team? Julio Jones doesn't help Matt Ryan? Davante Adams? Hopkins? Gronk/Edelman/Welker/Moss? Everyone wants to bring up Brees. Ok, here's some stats from 2014. Drew Brees was just shy of 5K yards and had 33 TD. He had no 1K WRs, no true #1 that you speak of. However, he did have play makers in the form of Mark Ingram, Jimmy Graham, Kenny Stills, Marques Colston, Brandin Cooks, etc Is it asking too much to have play makers for Carr? They don't have to be #1 guys, but we need some. Oh and the Saints went 7-9 that year, despite having all of that firepower. That was kind of my overall point. We do not need to worry about having a #1 right now. We need players that can take what Carr is comfortable doing right now and run with it. as far as our assets to improve the team some needs to go to play makers for Carr but I do not think a $15-18 million dollar WR is needed. We will get less return on a big time WR than we will with big time defensive players. I also think Zay Jones might improve working with Carr and turn into a 2nd #2 WR to go with Williams. Probably a low end #2 but for a 5th I will take it. He is also an improvement. Now would a top 3 WR talent wise help out? Of course. Would they help out enough to justify giving up a first and paying them $15-18 million? No way. AB cost us a 3rd and a 5th but he was more headache than anything else. I could be completely wrong but I do not see the value in getting a high end #1 WR right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonGruber Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 10 hours ago, Humble_Beast said: Carr looks good with good oline play..... hmmm lol People expect Carr to make guys miss and bomb it 50 yards in the past lol.... it’s all about the trenches. Pats always have a solid line, so do the the Packers. They pride themselves on OLine. Funny how baker mayfield is struggling so bad, his oline is trash.... QBs look good if they are behind a good oline, if the oline is trash, they will look trash Not soo much bombs more like throwing past the sticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 14 hours ago, true2form said: There is a huge difference between a #1 WR and PS though. You're telling me that AB doesn't make a difference on this team? Julio Jones doesn't help Matt Ryan? Davante Adams? Hopkins? Gronk/Edelman/Welker/Moss? Everyone wants to bring up Brees. Ok, here's some stats from 2014. Drew Brees was just shy of 5K yards and had 33 TD. He had no 1K WRs, no true #1 that you speak of. However, he did have play makers in the form of Mark Ingram, Jimmy Graham, Kenny Stills, Marques Colston, Brandin Cooks, etc Is it asking too much to have play makers for Carr? They don't have to be #1 guys, but we need some. Oh and the Saints went 7-9 that year, despite having all of that firepower. It’s not just play makers he needs continuity with his players they have to be here for multiple years under the same offense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragingraider Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Carr has not been an above average QB. He really struggles to make big plays. He doesnt want to throw the deep ball. He doesnt want to hang in the pocket and he struggles with deep ball accuracy. Amari Cooper dropped a lot of balls, but he was a good deep threat. Carr didnt even look at him downfield at the end of his time with the raiders. He is all about the five yard pass. Crabtree was Carr's main man because he had pretty solid hands and was a possesion style receiver. Carr loves tight ends and RB who he can throw to on the check down. Carr has also struggled with terrible turnovers in the red zone. That has to stop completely. I gave him a bit of a pass last year due to the new coach ,loss of players, and a terrible oline. This year he has to step it up. It is true his WR corp is sub par, but he has to find some plays downfield occasionally. It is difficult to move the ball 4 yards at a time. All that said, Carr can be more than a game manager. He is capable of being a very good QB. He is smart and gets the ball out crazy quick. He helps neutralize the other teams pass rush the same way Brady does. He just need to find the explosive plays and not turn the ball over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I'm just gonna leave this here. Watch it, remember it, try to understand and compare it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfDfnBH9--4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 4 hours ago, true2form said: I'm just gonna leave this here. Watch it, remember it, try to understand and compare it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfDfnBH9--4 Looks like a Gruden team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 10 hours ago, SimonGruber said: Not soo much bombs more like throwing past the sticks. Definitely something he needs to work on. Know how far you have to go and understand the situation. That is my biggest knock on Carr this season. Otherwise I am overall pretty happy with his progression. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 41 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: Definitely something he needs to work on. Know how far you have to go and understand the situation. That is my biggest knock on Carr this season. Otherwise I am overall pretty happy with his progression. "work on"? .... Riiiiiight Dude has been in the league since 2014 and in that time shown he's a conservative QB who doesn't like to push the ball down the field. And what progression? He's the same guy he's been? Good game manager when not getting pressured. Erratic, sloppy and folds when under pressure. Time we all calling a shoe a shoe... he's a game manager. He can start and win you games when the situation is right. Faced with adversity, he's going to be a liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 45 minutes ago, big_palooka said: "work on"? .... Riiiiiight Dude has been in the league since 2014 and in that time shown he's a conservative QB who doesn't like to push the ball down the field. And what progression? He's the same guy he's been? Good game manager when not getting pressured. Erratic, sloppy and folds when under pressure. Time we all calling a shoe a shoe... he's a game manager. He can start and win you games when the situation is right. Faced with adversity, he's going to be a liability. So what would you call facing a top 5 defense with a bottom 5 WR group? He's actually used his legs and played better under pressure this year, unless you want to deny that too based on the one sloppy pick vs Minnesota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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