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The Official Derek Carr Thread


Jerry

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7 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

Im tired of losing and we feel Carr needs to be replaced.

 

Issue with this board is people throw cheap shots at the posters because we dont think DC is the best option at QB. I've been called a bad rep raider fan, a know nothing about football etc Just because I dont like our 29-51 record QB who threw 19 TDs and 22 TDs the year before. 

 

It’s worst on other platforms just go on twitter and IG. The “ fake fan “ stuff really came to light for me when Matt mcgloin took over when Carr went down in 16. Seeing it a lot with Gruden Homerism is hella of a drug. 

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1 hour ago, bucksavage1 said:

Raiders had a top 7 offensive Line unit in 2017 and brought back his playmakers from his best season what was his excuse then?

I probably shouldn't reply judging by your recent posts and lack of objectivity but here goes:

1 - I look for reasons for under-performance of the O as a whole rather than excuses for any one individual.

2 - You do remember Carr fractured a bone in his back 2017 and clearly was not 100% fit but played through it for a number of weeks? He was clearly playing at less than full efficiency for 3 to 4 weeks at least whilst he was injured or recovering.

3 - Carr himself under performed no doubt, looked like he was wary especially after the back injury which he probably was and thus getting the ball out quick as can be. I believe his confidence had taken a couple blows after the injuries and then not playing at quite the same level as 2016 reinforced this.

4 - OC Todd Downing was a huge setback, really some head scratching play calls and probably game plans and there's no coincidence he was fired immediately after the season and won't sniff an OC job in the near future.  

5 - The OL although still very good in pass protection mixed in a lot more ZBS to play to Lynch's strengths at RB and it wasn't an easy transition, they definitely were less effective in 2017 than 2016 and the running game was much less effective too albeit Lynch's ability to break tackles and YAC covered some of that. I believe he was hit at or behind the line a very high number of times comparatively.

6 - Simply very badly timed drops and lots of them. I'm not sure of the stats but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Cooper, Crabtree, Roberts in particular dropped more passes than any other WR core and especially crucial passes like 3rd down.

7 - Our turnover differential was high in 2016 and probably kept us in games where we shouldn't have had a right to win, I don't think Carr had the same chances as in 2016 to 'win the game' and once you've won a few close calls the confidence rises, this didn't happen in 2017.

I think we have to look at all the elements if we really want to know why we couldn't replicate the 2016 season and why Carr was less effective - which I think no-one is denying. It was definitely partly Carr, he simply didn't play as well as 2016 and his decision making was negatively affected but there are obvious pointers as to the root cause of those troubles which I feel should be appreciated.

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9 hours ago, OG_C2X said:

I am sure the posts are still on the old forum, Under the name Commit_2_Xcelence. I worked for the raiders in a low level position in the film room for 4 years before i left after being diagnosed with throat cancer (been cancer free for the last 16 months) and moved to Houston with my Wife and 2 boys now. I was able to overhear alot of conversations and gameplans it was a very cool perspective. And it was at a very cool time. I was hired during the offseason prior to the 2011 season. So i saw an Al Davis ran franchise and then I got to see the first 3 years of reggies regime.

I may or may not still have a few friends in the building. 

Thanks. Hopefully your may or may not still have friends in the building are correct about the Raiders not drafting a QB. Also, good news about the cancer. My mother was just diagnosed and I’m hoping her outcome is the same as yours.

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9 hours ago, OG_C2X said:

I am sure the posts are still on the old forum, Under the name Commit_2_Xcelence. I worked for the raiders in a low level position in the film room for 4 years before i left after being diagnosed with throat cancer (been cancer free for the last 16 months) and moved to Houston with my Wife and 2 boys now. I was able to overhear alot of conversations and gameplans it was a very cool perspective. And it was at a very cool time. I was hired during the offseason prior to the 2011 season. So i saw an Al Davis ran franchise and then I got to see the first 3 years of reggies regime.

I may or may not still have a few friends in the building. 

To this day when you bring it up it’s crazy we had insider in here. That said management was zeroing in on Dj Hayden and iirc a lot of us thought you were full of it. Is their any other behind the scene tidbits you recall or backstories that you can share ? 

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13 minutes ago, SimonGruber said:

To this day when you bring it up it’s crazy we had insider in here. That said management was zeroing in on Dj Hayden and iirc a lot of us thought you were full of it. Is their any other behind the scene tidbits you recall or backstories that you can share ? 

He was the only guy reggie wanted to watch film of for a good week straight. He was infatuated with D.J.

There was alot of stuff man. I don't know for sure but i believe if Mack wasn't there at 5 in 2014 Reggie would have made a decision between Donald and Carr. He was very high on Carr i overheard him say multiple time he thought Derek was the best QB of the class and was worried if he would be there with their second rounder. 

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1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

I probably shouldn't reply judging by your recent posts and lack of objectivity but here goes:

1 - I look for reasons for under-performance of the O as a whole rather than excuses for any one individual.

2 - You do remember Carr fractured a bone in his back 2017 and clearly was not 100% fit but played through it for a number of weeks? He was clearly playing at less than full efficiency for 3 to 4 weeks at least whilst he was injured or recovering.

3 - Carr himself under performed no doubt, looked like he was wary especially after the back injury which he probably was and thus getting the ball out quick as can be. I believe his confidence had taken a couple blows after the injuries and then not playing at quite the same level as 2016 reinforced this.

4 - OC Todd Downing was a huge setback, really some head scratching play calls and probably game plans and there's no coincidence he was fired immediately after the season and won't sniff an OC job in the near future.  

5 - The OL although still very good in pass protection mixed in a lot more ZBS to play to Lynch's strengths at RB and it wasn't an easy transition, they definitely were less effective in 2017 than 2016 and the running game was much less effective too albeit Lynch's ability to break tackles and YAC covered some of that. I believe he was hit at or behind the line a very high number of times comparatively.

6 - Simply very badly timed drops and lots of them. I'm not sure of the stats but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Cooper, Crabtree, Roberts in particular dropped more passes than any other WR core and especially crucial passes like 3rd down.

7 - Our turnover differential was high in 2016 and probably kept us in games where we shouldn't have had a right to win, I don't think Carr had the same chances as in 2016 to 'win the game' and once you've won a few close calls the confidence rises, this didn't happen in 2017.

I think we have to look at all the elements if we really want to know why we couldn't replicate the 2016 season and why Carr was less effective - which I think no-one is denying. It was definitely partly Carr, he simply didn't play as well as 2016 and his decision making was negatively affected but there are obvious pointers as to the root cause of those troubles which I feel should be appreciated.

Preach.

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1 hour ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

Thanks. Hopefully your may or may not still have friends in the building are correct about the Raiders not drafting a QB. Also, good news about the cancer. My mother was just diagnosed and I’m hoping her outcome is the same as yours.

My mom was diagnosed back in December. She's going the holistic way to treat it and she feels great now. Her overall health has improved so far

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1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

I probably shouldn't reply judging by your recent posts and lack of objectivity but here goes:

1 - I look for reasons for under-performance of the O as a whole rather than excuses for any one individual.

2 - You do remember Carr fractured a bone in his back 2017 and clearly was not 100% fit but played through it for a number of weeks? He was clearly playing at less than full efficiency for 3 to 4 weeks at least whilst he was injured or recovering.

3 - Carr himself under performed no doubt, looked like he was wary especially after the back injury which he probably was and thus getting the ball out quick as can be. I believe his confidence had taken a couple blows after the injuries and then not playing at quite the same level as 2016 reinforced this.

4 - OC Todd Downing was a huge setback, really some head scratching play calls and probably game plans and there's no coincidence he was fired immediately after the season and won't sniff an OC job in the near future.  

5 - The OL although still very good in pass protection mixed in a lot more ZBS to play to Lynch's strengths at RB and it wasn't an easy transition, they definitely were less effective in 2017 than 2016 and the running game was much less effective too albeit Lynch's ability to break tackles and YAC covered some of that. I believe he was hit at or behind the line a very high number of times comparatively.

6 - Simply very badly timed drops and lots of them. I'm not sure of the stats but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Cooper, Crabtree, Roberts in particular dropped more passes than any other WR core and especially crucial passes like 3rd down.

7 - Our turnover differential was high in 2016 and probably kept us in games where we shouldn't have had a right to win, I don't think Carr had the same chances as in 2016 to 'win the game' and once you've won a few close calls the confidence rises, this didn't happen in 2017.

I think we have to look at all the elements if we really want to know why we couldn't replicate the 2016 season and why Carr was less effective - which I think no-one is denying. It was definitely partly Carr, he simply didn't play as well as 2016 and his decision making was negatively affected but there are obvious pointers as to the root cause of those troubles which I feel should be appreciated.

Dude seriously Even I thought this is a wasted post. It is not gonna change my opinion on DC.

Nobody is saying we had perfect situations. But just about every team every season is dealing with issues of a balanced roster, new coaches, declining players etc. That's the reality of the Free agency era of the NFL.

Carr has not got it done for the franchise QB contract he has gotten. This reminds me of many high paid FA QBs of years past

To me Carr's inconsistent play has been getting more excuses for his performances from the Raiders fan base 

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3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Why does it always have to be so black and white with some of you? 

I'm a Carr guy. He was atop my list of QBs in 2014. Carr certainly hasn't had the best supporting casts since becoming a Raiders and went through a lot of scheme changes in his time here. 

The issue is consistency. He'll have games where he looks e every bit the QB who can take you places. Accurate, poise, etc.

Those can be few and far between however. He has far more games where he's erratic, looses composure, etc. 

The thing I can't escape with Carr is the same challenge he had in college. He can't handle pressure. Soon as a team hits him a few times, he starts throwing off his back foot and giving up on plays. He doesn't want to run and make plays off schedule.

Carr can be a good starter (probably never great) who you need to protect and keep clean to excel. There are a lot worse QBs than Carr.

You hit the nail on the head. Carr is a different QB vs pressure. Doesn't use his legs to buy more time in the pocket or even pick up easy 1st downs.

That leads to stalled drives, field goal attempts and most importantly a tired defense getting put back on the field

 

Ironically I hear NOBODY mentioning the correlation between Carr's conservative play leading to the defense being back on the the field more. Everyone just wants to point finger except at Carr. 

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5 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

You hit the nail on the head. Carr is a different QB vs pressure. Doesn't use his legs to buy more time in the pocket or even pick up easy 1st downs.

That leads to stalled drives, field goal attempts and most importantly a tired defense getting put back on the field

 

Ironically I hear NOBODY mentioning the correlation between Carr's conservative play leading to the defense being back on the the field more. Everyone just wants to point finger except at Carr. 

This is just not true. To a man, everyone I've seen 'defending' Carr has acknowledged he has flaws, has made mistakes and needs to improve to earn his massive contract. I think everyone agrees that a $25m per season QB needs to play at a top 10 level and that Carr hasn't done that recently. Myself and more than a few others think he played really well in 2016 and 2015 and that 2017 was an off year and 2018 was a complete shambles that no-one could have succeeded in.

Where I think the disconnect is, is that you're on one side of the fence saying that Carr simply isn't that good and can't be that good and quite a few guys like myself are on the other side of the fence saying they think he can be that good and has been in the past but that we do need to help him out to achieve what we think he can. 

Neither of us right now knows who will be ultimately proven correct, I happen to believe the evidence is on our side but of course you can present evidence to the contrary too. I just hope Carr is given a chance to prove that he can be that guy, moving on with a rookie would be an incredibly risky move for a virgin GM.  

 

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49 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

This is just not true. To a man, everyone I've seen 'defending' Carr has acknowledged he has flaws, has made mistakes and needs to improve to earn his massive contract. I think everyone agrees that a $25m per season QB needs to play at a top 10 level and that Carr hasn't done that recently. Myself and more than a few others think he played really well in 2016 and 2015 and that 2017 was an off year and 2018 was a complete shambles that no-one could have succeeded in.

Where I think the disconnect is, is that you're on one side of the fence saying that Carr simply isn't that good and can't be that good and quite a few guys like myself are on the other side of the fence saying they think he can be that good and has been in the past but that we do need to help him out to achieve what we think he can. 

Neither of us right now knows who will be ultimately proven correct, I happen to believe the evidence is on our side but of course you can present evidence to the contrary too. I just hope Carr is given a chance to prove that he can be that guy, moving on with a rookie would be an incredibly risky move for a virgin GM.  

 

We have a different opinions but I can respect that. 

 

Carr was actually better in 2015 than 2016. We just won more as a team. He's been trending down ever since

I believe what we got out of Carr the last 2 seasons is we could of got out of Fitzpatrick,Tyrod Taylor, Mccown, Tannehill , Keenum or any just about any 1st round rookie QB At a lesser rate.

Carr wasn't chosen by this Administration and he's shown some serious issues in his game that is mental and was the issue coming out of college.

He plays scared and is a different QB if he gets hit a few times. No matter who you have on your line , the QB will be hit. Teams know this and he has become easy to defend and sack because he doesn't use the his feet in the pocket.  It is something that you have in your chest and mind. Playing scared equates to quick short pass averages with every offense he's been in. 

 

If you hang on to the past in the NFL you are gonna fail fast And hard. Mayock and Gruden are evaluating Murray and Haskins To see if they are better options than Carr. They don't care about the class of 2020 because as competitors who don't plan picking this high again.

Remember adding a rookie scale QB can equal to an additional 3 starters with cap space and more high picks if we trade Carr.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

If you hang on to the past in the NFL you are gonna fail fast And hard. Mayock and Gruden are evaluating Murray and Haskins To see if they are better options than Carr. They don't care about the class of 2020 because as competitors who don't plan picking this high again.

Remember adding a rookie scale QB can equal to an additional 3 starters with cap space and more high picks if we trade Carr.

So if Gruden passes on one or both of those guys, will you admit that they know what they are doing and Carr was a better option for us at least this season and possibly moving forward?

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I'm not sure anyone was more critical of Carr than I was last season, but I think the approach should be to try to trade back and pick up another 1st  for next year. If we trade back into the teens, we can still get two impact defenders and potentially a rb or te in the first round.

Carr gets a prove it year. If he pulls it together great, if not, we have three first round picks next year to get our franchise qb. I would trade Carr now, but we won't get more than a third for him. No thanks. He has been part of the problem the last couple of seasons that is just a fact. But, he has been injured, and we traded away or had all of his weapons get hurt last year  including his oline. That coupled with literally a  bottom three defense and a new staff gets him a pass. Barely.

If he can return to form, a giant "if", we are competing within the next two years. If we draft a qb early, and give away draft capital to do it, we will have lost an opportunity to improve and fill the many talent holes that we currently have. We need to improve our overall team talent.

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