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The Official Derek Carr Thread


Jerry

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1 minute ago, OG_C2X said:

ME. lol You even cited it.

I don't change my evaluation of a QB based on 1 game or 1 season. I have spent more time watching Carr film then any other player in the NFL probably. The kid is EXACTLY what you want in a QB. Wentz and Darnold are the only guys in the NFL I would take over Carr. He can make every throw in the book. His Football IQ is Elite. He is a plus Athlete. Has Ice Water running through his veins. He is a leader of men. Those things make you an Elite QB.  

It wasn’t a season though, he straight up was garbage for over 2 seasons and I think we need to come to the conclusion he will always need a Top 5 Pass Protection. Which I’m fine with as long as it doesn’t take resources away from defense. Let’s draft a cheap elite defense and win a SB before we gotta pay them all. 

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6 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

It wasn’t a season though, he straight up was garbage for over 2 seasons and I think we need to come to the conclusion he will always need a Top 5 Pass Protection. Which I’m fine with as long as it doesn’t take resources away from defense. Let’s draft a cheap elite defense and win a SB before we gotta pay them all. 

No this is not accurate. He looked shook in 2017, came back in 2018 and despite having the worst OL, WR, and RB in the NFL looked promising. 

He doesn't need a top 5 pass pro, he needs to not have a revolving door at OC. Do you know the difference a .5 second makes to a QB. If you have to spend an extra .5 second processing a new offense every snap you are going to get killed. Carr has one of the top 4 quickest releases, and we run an offense predicated on running the ball, quick passes, and taking shots of Play Action. 

Kolton and Ritchie (who is 37) are the only two guys not making top 5 money., that last comment didn't make much sense lol. 

Edited by OG_C2X
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52 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Yeah after the KC and MINN games was the first time I’ve seen this forum unite and come to the conclusion Carr sucks, outside of Frankie and OGX.

Go to the first post of the thread...

  On 3/27/2019 at 3:41 AM, G said:

Carr defender to the rescue here...xD

So before he got paid he broke his finger and played, then his leg and got paid. After paid breaks his back and tries to win the Dallas game but lost the ball...Yep dude has no heart, toughness or desire to win. All about the bennies...

Carr might be too nice and trying to please others and maybe a little too goody goody God/Jesus type compared to the stories I know of when the cops would escort our QB's back to their hotel after tying one on all night at the bar. Even Hoss kicked and spit once he donned the silver and black.Johnny Fotball is probably more our fan bases speed. Though he doesn't party as hard as Todd Moron-O-Vich

I'll agree that Carr doesn't have any excuses being we've spent most of our money on the Offense and still have no defense. Maybe he'll be like Romo and get the job done but never get the big one, but as long as he wears the silver and black, I'll have his back. If he leaves I'll root for him just like I do Mack as I thank both of them for digging us out even if it was a 'fluke/lucky' season. Still felt good to have an MVP talked about QB, Defensive MVP and a playoff run cut short due to Carr's injury. We were talked about as the ones to challenge the Pats. We would have been like Philly last season. Maybe not the best but the best when it mattered.

 

  On 3/27/2019 at 5:03 AM, G said:

He's already a success in my book. Looks shell shocked at the moment and needs to forget past injuries. Mahomes has fans thinking that a star QB is easy to find. There's a reason Romo had a gig as long as he did. Carr is Romo level with the chance to be much better. Trading away his best friend right before the season affected him and add his injuries the past few seasons and no wonder fans have turned on him. You won't be calling me out as I don't think I'll ever have hate for Carr. If we draft a guy and he BEATS him then all good. Draft position usually wins out but if Grier fell to the 4th and he beats out Carr then Carr will be my favorite back up QB and I'll be rooting for Grier's success. I just want to win and I'd like to see some kind of loyalty at some point. Best plan is to build the team around Carr and draft a back up to groom. If Carr can't get it done and letting him go allows us to get over the hump, then I'm all for it but right now the vision looks like to get revenge on Al for trading Gruden. LOL

 

Edit: At least Carr didn't 'give up' like a lot of other players. Saying something about that to the media was cringy at the time but seeing the moves we made makes sense. I think some of his teammates feel the way the fans here do. Some of us think he's our QB and others want him off and under the bus. Time will tell...

 

 

Some see the bigger picture of why Carr has had struggles. Injuries, OC turnover, best friend being traded days before the season...You can even look in the Draft QB section I'm talking about the fans turning so I'm starting to pay attention to QB's even though I personally think we should keep him. He still might struggle and his high passes early has been there from his past. Excitement like Favre use to do and by 4th quarter he's locked in. DC is trying to NOT be like the #4 Gunslinger and not like the beaten down QB that was also named Carr. We're lucky to have Derek and his contract gives us a chance to make a push the next couple years. Even a franchise tag a season if needed and draft a young QB because that is the new NFL. Win with a cheap QB contract. That time is now with 35 million being the new number. YIKES!!!

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I can say I've never wavered. Do I want him to be at his best? Of course. However, I knew we wouldn't see his best until we surrounded him with better talent.

This is a general statement that applies to every QB ever, so I don't understand why some struggle to grasp that.

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26 minutes ago, true2form said:

I can say I've never wavered. Do I want him to be at his best? Of course. However, I knew we wouldn't see his best until we surrounded him with better talent.

This is a general statement that applies to every QB ever, so I don't understand why some struggle to grasp that.

No... I’ve seen Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Andrew Luck among many other QBs work with no line or receivers and elevate their offense. This is definitely a thing. Deshaun Watson too, one of the worst lines of all time and hes #3 MVP voting. Wilson has a good RB but terrible line, terrible defense, below average receivers, and no TE. 

Carr I’m throughly impressed with and want him as our QB for 2020 and beyond as long as he’s playing well. However, let’s not assume every QB needs talent. Carr without question needs a Top 5 Offensive Line. That is not even really debatable. 

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25 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

No... I’ve seen Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Andrew Luck among many other QBs work with no line or receivers and elevate their offense. This is definitely a thing. Deshaun Watson too, one of the worst lines of all time and hes #3 MVP voting. Wilson has a good RB but terrible line, terrible defense, below average receivers, and no TE. 

Carr I’m throughly impressed with and want him as our QB for 2020 and beyond as long as he’s playing well. However, let’s not assume every QB needs talent. Carr without question needs a Top 5 Offensive Line. That is not even really debatable. 

All those guys have at least had the same system to work in for more than one year in a row too. Continuity helps, especially the QB position.

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8 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

No... I’ve seen Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Andrew Luck among many other QBs work with no line or receivers and elevate their offense. This is definitely a thing. Deshaun Watson too, one of the worst lines of all time and hes #3 MVP voting. Wilson has a good RB but terrible line, terrible defense, below average receivers, and no TE. 

Carr I’m throughly impressed with and want him as our QB for 2020 and beyond as long as he’s playing well. However, let’s not assume every QB needs talent. Carr without question needs a Top 5 Offensive Line. That is not even really debatable. 

Delusional.

Seahawks have Carson, Lockett, and Metcalf. Wilson has had way better talent than this year every other year of his career and this is the first year he hasn't had an elite defense.

Packers have Jones, Adams, and Scantling. They have an improved defense this year as well. When they've lacked talent on both sides of the ball, they've been bad. 

Patriots? Really? This year the talent around Tom is down, but he's had an amazing slot WR and HOF TE the past decade. They've constantly found high level talent to add to their oline, WR, and RB groups. The defense hasn't been the best recently, but this season and at least his first decade of playing the defense carried them. Also because they're winners, they constantly get pro bowl caliber players signing on for cheap for a shot at a title. 

The Colts may have the least talent over the course of Luck's career of any of these teams, but having an improved line, TY, Mack, and improved defense turned them into a contender last year and make Brissett look serviceable this year.

Texans in a shorter period for Watson, but he's had an elite defense and #1 WR in Hopkins the whole time.

Even if you disagree with my assessment of the talent these guys have had, you can't possibly believe that the Raiders have had better talent for Carr the last 2 years.

Wait, actually please tell me you believe that so I can ignore any and all of your posts going forward.

Please....

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38 minutes ago, true2form said:

Delusional.

Seahawks have Carson, Lockett, and Metcalf. Wilson has had way better talent than this year every other year of his career and this is the first year he hasn't had an elite defense.

Packers have Jones, Adams, and Scantling. They have an improved defense this year as well. When they've lacked talent on both sides of the ball, they've been bad. 

Patriots? Really? This year the talent around Tom is down, but he's had an amazing slot WR and HOF TE the past decade. They've constantly found high level talent to add to their oline, WR, and RB groups. The defense hasn't been the best recently, but this season and at least his first decade of playing the defense carried them. Also because they're winners, they constantly get pro bowl caliber players signing on for cheap for a shot at a title. 

The Colts may have the least talent over the course of Luck's career of any of these teams, but having an improved line, TY, Mack, and improved defense turned them into a contender last year and make Brissett look serviceable this year.

Texans in a shorter period for Watson, but he's had an elite defense and #1 WR in Hopkins the whole time.

Even if you disagree with my assessment of the talent these guys have had, you can't possibly believe that the Raiders have had better talent for Carr the last 2 years.

Wait, actually please tell me you believe that so I can ignore any and all of your posts going forward.

Please....

I’m talking about they have gone through spouts of their career with almost nothing. Bradys early days was laughable. Rodgers has gone through dry spells of no talent. You are also overrating Lockett and Metcalf, neither are even better than Tyrell Williams who is a Mid Range WR2. 

How many good seasons has Carr had with an average line? Zero. Let me see him with the 15th ranked line and see him have a solid season. It will never, ever happen. He needs a Top 5 Line. Which is fine as long as we draft well on defense. 

Another Carr guy who will never admit a single fault. Carr is terrible under pressure. Better this year because pressure is rare and he’s not expecting it. It affects his mindset easily. That’s how QBs get happy feet, which is not a common thing. It’s a personality trait. Some QBs have it. Most don’t. 

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7 hours ago, OG_C2X said:

Wentz and Darnold are the only guys in the NFL I would. take over Carr He can make every throw in the book. His Football IQ is Elite. He is a plus Athlete. Has Ice Water running through his veins. He is a leader of men. Those things make you an Elite QB.  

See this is crazy. Mahomes, Watson and Wilson...and youre taking Carr over all of them? Ridiculous.

 

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1 minute ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Im happy that Carr is back playing well I truly am, but some of you Carr homers are reallly wilding over this 5-6 game stretch lol. 

Carr deserves all the praise he is getting, and should be our starter for 2020 without question. He’s playing fantastic. The only thing I don’t like is some Carr homers act like there were never any flaws to begin with Carr and nothing is ever Carrs fault. Plenty was on him the past couple years. Not all but plenty. 

He will always be bad under pressure as well, if he consistently had an OLine ranked middle of the pack we would see the happy feet and phantom pressure. He needs a Top 5 Pass Protection. Honestly I think he needs a Top 3 Pass Protection. 2016 was 1st, 2017 4th, 2018 26th, and this year 2nd. 

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2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Carr deserves all the praise he is getting, and should be our starter for 2020 without question. He’s playing fantastic. The only thing I don’t like is some Carr homers act like there were never any flaws to begin with Carr and nothing is ever Carrs fault. Plenty was on him the past couple years. Not all but plenty. 

He will always be bad under pressure as well, if he consistently had an OLine ranked middle of the pack we would see the happy feet and phantom pressure. He needs a Top 5 Pass Protection. Honestly I think he needs a Top 3 Pass Protection. 2016 was 1st, 2017 4th, 2018 26th, and this year 2nd. 

Agreed. Ive been saying that for years that he is a QB who needs elite tier protection to play well and im happy that he has that this year and is playing well. A positive i will say about him is that he is the type of QB that doesn't really need a #1 WR. He will spread the ball around always and thats when he is at his best. When he had an elite receiver talent like Amari, they never really clicked and produced like they shouldve. So its a give and take. We will always have to have one of the of the best and highest paid Olines in the league for him to be at his best, but we also probably will never have to invest heavily into a #1 WR. Josh Jacobs should continue to be a beast as well for at least the next 3+ years so that should help out a bunch as well.

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4 hours ago, BayRaider said:

I’m talking about they have gone through spouts of their career with almost nothing. Bradys early days was laughable. Rodgers has gone through dry spells of no talent. You are also overrating Lockett and Metcalf, neither are even better than Tyrell Williams who is a Mid Range WR2. 

How many good seasons has Carr had with an average line? Zero. Let me see him with the 15th ranked line and see him have a solid season. It will never, ever happen. He needs a Top 5 Line. Which is fine as long as we draft well on defense. 

Another Carr guy who will never admit a single fault. Carr is terrible under pressure. Better this year because pressure is rare and he’s not expecting it. It affects his mindset easily. That’s how QBs get happy feet, which is not a common thing. It’s a personality trait. Some QBs have it. Most don’t. 

 Brady won most of the Super Bowls with an elite defense and dominant running game.

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5 hours ago, BayRaider said:

No... I’ve seen Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Andrew Luck among many other QBs work with no line or receivers and elevate their offense. This is definitely a thing. Deshaun Watson too, one of the worst lines of all time and hes #3 MVP voting. Wilson has a good RB but terrible line, terrible defense, below average receivers, and no TE. 

Carr I’m throughly impressed with and want him as our QB for 2020 and beyond as long as he’s playing well. However, let’s not assume every QB needs talent. Carr without question needs a Top 5 Offensive Line. That is not even really debatable. 

And all of those QBs have also benefited from elite defenses at one point or another... Andrew Luck has a worse QB rating for his career than Carr. Wilson is about the same. 

Rodgers and Brady aren't really arguable, but lets not pretend like all situations are created the same. I dont think anyone is comparing Jack Del Rio or Dennis Allen to Belichick. Brady has also consistently had the same offensive system to operate in. He didn't have a constant changing of coaches his first 6 years in the league. Carr has consistently had a bottom 5 defense working against him at every turn. 

Sure Carr isnt Brady or Rodgers or even Wilson but all of those guys probably go down as top 10 QBs of all time when its all said and done (Brady being the GOAT). If the argument is Carr cant elevate teams and offenses like those guys then fine. Its not really an argument. 

What about guys like Rivers, Eli Manning, Matt Ryan, Drew Brees (who actually looks very comparable his first 6 years in the league), etc? Those guys are all probably hall of famers, they range in talent, but they're high level QBs that made a lot of pro bowls, MVPs, super bowl wins, etc... Situations matter. 

Carr came into the league in maybe the worst run franchise in all of the NFL. We've been a laughing stock for as long as I can remember. And we put all the blame on Carr for not being able to turn a dumpster fire around or completely elevate offenses or teams around him. Ok Carr isnt one of the few that can carry an entire offense, but there have been VERY few to ever do that. 

The 2 most talented teams Carr has played with IMO are 2016 and this season, and we see what hes capable of doing with that. And even the 2016 team wasn't super talented. Especially on defense. Carr isn't the elite of the elite, but he's pro bowl caliber good. But that also doesn't mean he should be expected to carry bad teams with bad talwnt to the promise land every year, especially when learning a new offensive system every year. 

If we continue to build around him, and maybe give him even a league average defense Derek Carr will get us where we want to go. I truly believe that. 

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