pacman5252 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 I feel like Fant’s combine leaves people unjustly sour on Hock. The only guy on the id take over Hock is Howard. Measureable wise the only guy on the list that compares is Engram (who’s also smaller and doesn’t block). https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/tj-hockenson Agility drills 77/85/84 Jumps-91/90 40-68th Pettigrew was a different kind of player. Hurst wasn’t nearly as good of an athlete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 The reason I called him Hagendas, Hockenfuss, and Hackysack 3 months ago is because he had already become a caricature of himself. A pancake block is apparently all you need to drive the hype machine. He looked a tad clunky at first glance and was schemed open or running free thru zones a lot. My conclusion is that to be worthy of #12 a tight end needs to be perfect. He's not. Wouldn't shock me no matter where he's drafted. It would shock me if he ends up as good as Gronk, Kelce, Gonzalez, Graham, Gates, Ertz, Witten, Sharpe etc etc. Maybe a poor mans Witten ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, cannondale said: The reason I called him Hagendas, Hockenfuss, and Hackysack 3 months ago is because he had already become a caricature of himself. A pancake block is apparently all you need to drive the hype machine. He looked a tad clunky at first glance and was schemed open or running free thru zones a lot. My conclusion is that to be worthy of #12 a tight end needs to be perfect. He's not. Wouldn't shock me no matter where he's drafted. It would shock me if he ends up as good as Gronk, Kelce, Gonzalez, Graham, Gates, Ertz, Witten, Sharpe etc etc. Maybe a poor mans Witten ? He is Witten. Just what Witten actually was and not the Witten that people think existed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 51 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: He is Witten. Just what Witten actually was and not the Witten that people think existed. I was going to ask in the draft thread if a 75% chance of a decade of Witten is worth #12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, incognito_man said: I was going to ask in the draft thread if a 75% chance of a decade of Witten is worth #12. Still a no for me because we have bigger needs at harder positions to draft. Biggest for me is DL where we have Clark and not much else after next year. Others include ER (nothing after the Smiths after next year), OL (Bulaga and Spriggs up after next year) and S for obvious reasons. I could handle Hock or Fant at #30 I guess but still pushing it. Depends on the board. I take a falling OT or ER for 5 years any day of the week over TE. Obviously I think that extra year is pretty important and should be used wisely on premium positions Edited March 30, 2019 by cannondale 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaireAlex Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 44 minutes ago, incognito_man said: I was going to ask in the draft thread if a 75% chance of a decade of Witten is worth #12. I see a Witten and value that a lot. Still, you have to move down, get an extra pick to take him because it's TE. (I don't value the Fants nearly as high) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, James Lofton said: Hi yuh -- I see a lot of Mocks guess we may take TE T.J. Hockenson. I don't know a ton about him. Sure seems early to take a TE in my opinion. But if he could be like Gronk (who was picked in the 2nd round #42) then I'm on board, but if he has a very good career like Mercedes Lewis (who was picked in the 1st round of 2006 #28) then I'll pass. Can you help me rank him compared to other TE's that got drafted in the first round? 2018 Hayden Hurst pick 25 2017 O.J. Howard pick 19 2017 Evan Engram pick 23 2010 Jermaine Gresham pick 21 2009 Brandon Pettigrew pick 20 Obviously, none of these guys got picked as early as 12. How does he compare? I think he's a better prospect than all but OJ Howard. We don't know how he will turn out but Iowa kids gets to get under drafted. If he goes in top 12, teams must think he's elite. I've seen him mocked to Detroit at 8 more than a few times. Since I like the kid, I wouldn't wish that on him. Edited March 31, 2019 by Golfman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaireAlex Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 32 minutes ago, Golfman said: I think he's a better prospect than all but OJ Howard. We don't know how he will turn out but Iowa kids gets to get under drafted. If he goes in top 12, teams must think he's elite. I've seen him mocked to Detroit at 8 more than a few times. Since I like the kid, I wouldn't wish that on him. Of course Detroit is the last team to draft a high TE since Vernon Davis. On the other hand the Packers drafted the highest tight end ever at number four overall. So, there's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 I have a feeling Fant will go alot earlier than people think and Hock may fall a bit but I do think people here are under estimating Hocks talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaireAlex Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) That comment of mine was from Gil Brandt who was off. There were some first rounders and even number ones back in the day. The history of drafting first round tight ends is interesting. The last fifteen years, only dumb FOs for the most part draft round one. Detroit has a bad recent record on high draft TEs. They will likely draft Fant this year because ..........Detroit. Anyways. Hock is a definite no go for me til 30, at least 20 https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1990&year_max=2018&draft_round_min=1&draft_round_max=1&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&pick_type=overall&pos[]=te&conference=any&show=all&order_by=draft_pick Edited March 31, 2019 by JaireAlex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 20 hours ago, cannondale said: The reason I called him Hagendas, Hockenfuss, and Hackysack 3 months ago is because he had already become a caricature of himself. A pancake block is apparently all you need to drive the hype machine. He looked a tad clunky at first glance and was schemed open or running free thru zones a lot. My conclusion is that to be worthy of #12 a tight end needs to be perfect. He's not. Wouldn't shock me no matter where he's drafted. It would shock me if he ends up as good as Gronk, Kelce, Gonzalez, Graham, Gates, Ertz, Witten, Sharpe etc etc. Maybe a poor mans Witten ? A poor mans Witten is a pretty darn good football player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Even a young Witten wasn't very explosive. TJ Hockenson is significantly more explosive than Witten was. He seems like a more fluid athlete and definitely a better leaper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 It seems as we all find warts on the guys we DON'T like. I include myself in as well. I'm frightened by the thought of taking Gary, Burns or Sweat at 12. I don't see the game tape worthy of a pick that high. The proverbial 'looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.' I'm just an armchair draft guy who values more picks because the reality is you are going to miss on some. For us if you are looking for a 'can't miss guy' there are only 5 in this draft as far as what we need: Bosa, Williams, Allen, Oliver and Hockenson. Fant has questionable hands. Not good for a guy who would be a receiving TE. Gary, Burns and Sweat don't have the game tape IMO. Jonah Williams is a bust waiting to happen IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaRisMa Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 On 3/30/2019 at 4:11 PM, AlexGreen#20 said: He is Witten. Just what Witten actually was and not the Witten that people think existed. So a three down chain mover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaRisMa Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Golfman said: It seems as we all find warts on the guys we DON'T like. I include myself in as well. I'm frightened by the thought of taking Gary, Burns or Sweat at 12. I don't see the game tape worthy of a pick that high. The proverbial 'looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.' I'm just an armchair draft guy who values more picks because the reality is you are going to miss on some. For us if you are looking for a 'can't miss guy' there are only 5 in this draft as far as what we need: Bosa, Williams, Allen, Oliver and Hockenson. Fant has questionable hands. Not good for a guy who would be a receiving TE. Gary, Burns and Sweat don't have the game tape IMO. Jonah Williams is a bust waiting to happen IMO. Jonah Williams is the Tackle I'd be LEAST worried about busting. Battle tested as hell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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