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Hunter2_1

What does Arizona do?

With the 1st overall  

65 members have voted

  1. 1. What do the Cards do?

    • Pick Kyler Murray, and seek a favorable trade using Rosen
      44
    • Pick Kyler Murray, and have him and Rosen do battle in camp to determine QB1
      3
    • Do NOT pick Murray (Pick Bosa or Williams instead)
      18


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I know we've had the consensus poll series, which showed Murray going number 1, but I feel that as each day goes by, the more people claim to realise that the Murray-to-Arizona narrative was a bit shaky from the start. 

For Rosen

Mock drafters seem to have clung on to Kliff's compliments of Murray, but Kliff is complimentary of a lot of players. Including the current ARZ QB...

“People have said a lot of things, that are misconceptions...

“I always thought watching him at UCLA that he played his best football in a spread system, which has some similarities to what we do,” Kingsbury said.

They moved up five spots to get him last year, will they actually want to scrap all that effort? While Rosen's 2018 season was not great, there are mitigating factors to consider. His completion percentage, TD%, and INT% were all below average relative to other first round rookies, but he was tasked with leading one of the worst offenses. Between a change in offensive coordinators, being thrust into early action behind a highly underwhelming veteran bridge QB, and running for his life behind an offensive line that kept exactly zero of its' projected starters healthy for the year, it's hard to see how any rookie QB would perform well. Still, a below average start to Rosen's career can be nothing but expected given the atrocious offense he was "gifted." - from revengeofthebirds.

Or, is everyone right? Cards can't resist getting the guy they think will change them. Is this actually a no-brainer, and Murray is a generational talent that cannot be passed up?

 

I want the revised forum wisdom!

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As a fan of a team not drafting a QB this year, and therefore wanting a run on QBs, I'm gonna say--and cross my fingers that its's true--that they take Murray.

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15 minutes ago, bananabucket said:

I have a strange feeling Oakland trades up for Murray.

And where is Carr going

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The Cardinals should trade the pick to the highest bidder and then take Haskins or the BPA defensive player.

 

But it's a virtual lock at this point that they're going with Murray and trading Rosen.

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5 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Or, is everyone right? Cards can't resist getting the guy they think will change them. Is this actually a no-brainer, and Murray is a generational talent that cannot be passed up?

I don't see how the Murray to the Cardinals narrative is shaky, at all. We've hardly ever seen this much pre-draft "smoke" without there being a draft day "fire". I think they take Murray and trade Rosen, as weird as that would be. And that could end up working out well for them, but if I was a Cards fan I'd be terrified, as I'm extremely skeptical that Murray is a generational talent, or even a "can't-miss" sort of guy. 

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1 minute ago, Heinz D. said:

I don't see how the Murray to the Cardinals narrative is shaky, at all. We've hardly ever seen this much pre-draft "smoke" without there being a draft day "fire". I think they take Murray and trade Rosen, as weird as that would be. And that could end up working out well for them, but if I was a Cards fan I'd be terrified, as I'm extremely skeptical that Murray is a generational talent, or even a "can't-miss" sort of guy. 

I think it's shaky because (as per RevengeoftheBirds again) "Only a few weeks ago when we looked at the SB Nation 2019 NFL Consensus Mock Draft the overwhelming favorite was Nick Bosa at 55%, with only 27% looking at the potential of Kyler Murray. That was on March 5, 2019." Not saying it won't happen, but the way it has been almost unanimously accepted that ARZ will take KM seems to have boomed over a short span of time. 

and I certainly don't think there's smoke but no fire, hence why I said I wouldn't be surprised if they did select KM.

I'm with you on the second part - Not the ideal situation to be in, despite having No1. pick. I'm also skeptical of his talent, it's not a home-run, by the looks of it. I guess it could be though.

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26 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

 

 

 

The Cardinals should trade the pick to the highest bidder and then take Haskins or the BPA defensive player.

But it's a virtual lock at this point that they're going with Murray and trading Rosen.

 

Why is it?

You may be right, but I'm looking at a few fanposts from a Cards forum and they're less sure. There's a lot of posts defending Rosen. 

https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2019/3/22/18268320/a-statistical-defense-of-josh-rosen

 

Not saying I agree - just putting different view points out there

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52 minutes ago, bananabucket said:

I have a strange feeling Oakland trades up for Murray.

I think Mayock is too smart for that. I wouldn't hate picking Murray at #4, but I would be pissed if we traded up for him. 

Also depends how much we could get for Carr.

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9 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

 

Why is it?

You may be right, but I'm looking at a few fanposts from a Cards forum and they're less sure. There's a lot of posts defending Rosen. 

https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2019/3/22/18268320/a-statistical-defense-of-josh-rosen

 

Not saying I agree - just putting different view points out there

I just think there's so much smoke around the idea that Kyler Murray is going 1st and Rosen is being shipped out. I think it would be a mistake to do this, but where there's smoke there's fire. For the Cardinals sake, I hope it's smoke and they're just trying to build a trade partner.

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Just now, BleedTheClock said:

I just think there's so much smoke around the idea that Kyler Murray is going 1st and Rosen is being shipped out. I think it would be a mistake to do this, but where there's smoke there's fire. For the Cardinals sake, I hope it's smoke and they're just trying to build a trade partner.

you don't rate him that highly? 

That would be kick-*** if that's what they're doing.

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6 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

you don't rate him that highly? 

That would be kick-*** if that's what they're doing.

I'm fine with a team taking Kyler Murray at #1. I just think it's a major risk. I'd play it safe, keep Rosen, and look to bolster your roster elsewhere.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't like Rosen more, as I view him as a much safer bet. It's way too early to give up on Rosen, especially with the dog crap pile he had to work with last year.

 

 

Also, I prefer Dwayne Haskins to Kyler Murray. Both have 1st round grades from me, but Haskins is the only guy I'd feel SAFE selecting in the top 10.

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8 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

 

I know we've had the consensus poll series, which showed Murray going number 1, but I feel that as each day goes by, the more people claim to realise that the Murray-to-Arizona narrative was a bit shaky from the start. 

For Rosen

Mock drafters seem to have clung on to Kliff's compliments of Murray, but Kliff is complimentary of a lot of players. Including the current ARZ QB...

“People have said a lot of things, that are misconceptions...

“I always thought watching him at UCLA that he played his best football in a spread system, which has some similarities to what we do,” Kingsbury said.

They moved up five spots to get him last year, will they actually want to scrap all that effort? While Rosen's 2018 season was not great, there are mitigating factors to consider. His completion percentage, TD%, and INT% were all below average relative to other first round rookies, but he was tasked with leading one of the worst offenses. Between a change in offensive coordinators, being thrust into early action behind a highly underwhelming veteran bridge QB, and running for his life behind an offensive line that kept exactly zero of its' projected starters healthy for the year, it's hard to see how any rookie QB would perform well. Still, a below average start to Rosen's career can be nothing but expected given the atrocious offense he was "gifted." - from revengeofthebirds.

Or, is everyone right? Cards can't resist getting the guy they think will change them. Is this actually a no-brainer, and Murray is a generational talent that cannot be passed up?

 

I want the revised forum wisdom!

Kingsbury is being honest about both guys but the Rosen praise doesn’t get reported because it doesn’t fit the narrative...

He needs to understand we are in this together and I want him to know he kind of has the keys to the castle and let's build this deal as a group," Kingsbury said, according to the Cardinals' team website. "Make sure he is comfortable with what we are doing, if he doesn't like something that is going on with this offense or the way I'm coaching it, let's talk about it and come up with the best answer. When (the QBs) have that type of ownership, it goes a long way."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/cardinals-kliff-kingsbury-reaffirms-commitment-to-josh-rosen-he-has-the-keys-to-the-castle/

"Yeah, I think you focus on what you can control and Josh knows our feelings on him and that hasn't changed. He's a tremendous talent. Had some tough adversity to fight through last year with some injuries up front, but I thought competed his tail off and worked hard and I'm excited about his future."

"Yeah, I've talked to Josh and he understands it's a business and what all goes with the first pick and what's going on."

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2019/03/25/josh-rosen-kyler-murray-rumors-kliff-kingsbury-arizona-cardinals-quarterback-nfl-draft/3267146002/

We take a lot of pride building the system around the quarterback, so saying he doesn’t fit the system, it doesn’t make sense,” he said.

As for what Rosen has to offer, Kingsbury thinks “there’s a lot to work with.”

He called Rosen “a tremendous thinker, very cerebral,” and noted he “can throw it with anybody.”

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/27/josh-rosen-fit-az-arizona-cardinals-kliff-kingsbury/

Not that Kingsbury is worried that Rosen could be derailed by such talk.

“Have you been around Josh?” Kingsbury said. “I don’t think he needs help with the confidence factor. He’s a confident young man, and that’s what you love about him. He’s got very thick skin. All of this kind of falls off his back and he’s ready to go prove what he can do.”

https://www.azcardinals.com/news/kliff-kingsbury-talking-josh-rosen-kyler-murray-but-more-draft-info-needed

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First 10 minutes answers the question. Also, I want to see the 49ers trade down with Bosa on the board.

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