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Broncos Shopping SS TJ Ward - CUT Signs w TB


elliot878

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After extension talks failed this offseason, it appears Elway is shopping TJ Ward.  Have to assume this means good things as far as the development of Justin Simmons and Will Parks.

Honestly, I think it's probably a good year to get some draft capital for surplus players.  Not many 31 year olds in the NFL pull much in pick return value though.  A player for player trade for a DL would make a whole lot of sense as well.

 

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I'd rather just wait until John Lynch gives him a huge contract and enjoy the 3rd or 4th round pick in return...

I'm also uncomfortable with the assumption that Parks or Simmons could just step in and excel. There's a lot to clean up there, especially with Simmons. I don't think you can realistically expect either to play at TJ's level in 2017, even in decline. And it's just a bad will locker room move that cuts into the most dynamic group on the team, the DBs. The only thing that would give me pause and consider a trade is the hamstring, as alluded to in the other thread. If you think whatever he brings to the table this year tanks his value, sure, trade him.

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There's no way Ward is sticking with us long-term, but it would be surprising if we got much in return trade-wise, given he's a FA at year's end, has been declining and is at an age where rapid decline is recognized as a huge risk.  

If someone were trying to give up a 3rd/4th, it would be really tempting long-term (I'd also say that GM making the offer needs to have their head examined).  And there's no doubt in my mind long-term we'd find a replacement for Ward.   And given Simmons and Parks are now joined by 2 more talented safeties in Jamal Carter & Orion Stewart,  the odds of finding an equally capable replacement next year are really good - and the $ saved makes it a no-brainer.   FWIW, he got a 4 year, 22M contract from Elway - good coin, but not elite $.  I don't see how he gets a great contract when everyone can see his play is in decline.  Now, he isn't going penniless, but the point is the draft pick comp is highly unlikely to be even as good as an end-of-4th rd comp pick.

Having said that, while Ward is clearly in decline, it's another thing to think that our rookies from last year or rookies now would be ready Week 1 this year to play at a high level.  It would be awesome if we could find that right away - but growing pains are usually the norm early on, even in Year 2 overall, for new starters with no prior experience.  If we were a complete D like 2015, we could hide that...but man, we are far from a complete D unit now.   So, it's not like we can "hide" a S learning on the job.

The kicker for me is the return - as @elliot878 points out, not many fading 30+ year old safeties find a huge trade market.   There would be salary relief, which is always a plus, but I don't know how much return we'd get pick-wise.   

This would accomplish one thing - help with our numbers crunch.  The play from our young safety prospects makes it tough to impossible to keep so many on the 53-man roster, and having to clear waivers, that's a tough gig when you play well in the secondary, even at safety (over CB) - teams notice.   It's not the argument to be used in justifying trading Ward by itself, but you have to wonder if that's part of what's driving Elway here (besides the business side of $ value).

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We can't fall in love with players for what they did for us in the past. This is why New England trades a Richard Seymour, or lets revis walk, or Lawyer Milloy. TJ Ward was an instrumental piece in bringing this defense back to the orange crush days, and winning a superbowl but he's still overvalued even by fans. Hopefully we can put lip stick on a pig and make a gm bite.

Did anyone think last season New England could replace Collins with the ease they did arguably their best players on defense.

Cleveland bought a pick essentially a basketball move. Bellicheck makes baseball moves every year. Why's this relevant because football has many parallels to other sports. And the day Elway falls in love with what players did and not what they're expected to do is the day that this team falls apart. 

Look at the phillies after 2011 they could of replenished their farm system but instead loved Utley, Rollins, Howard way too much.

I respect this heady way of thinking.

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Brandon Marshall speaking out against trading him. I don't think we need any public statements from Von and the DBs to know how they'd feel. That's the kind of move you make that makes it easier for players to quit when things get tough.

What Belichick does is unique. Everyone knows what kind of culture that is. All negative reinforcement, no loyalty to the individual. That's fine when you win 12 games every year on top of 5 Super Bowls. Really, we're going to point to a dynasty with a GOAT coach/GM-quarterback combination whose model has failed everywhere else around the league as an example to follow? If Elway tries his hand at that, this team better win more championships soon or this team's reputation around the league suffers. Now there's some variables.

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4 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

And that this rumor was made public about one of the team's leaders is a colossal f-up by the organization in itself.  They've handled this horribly.

It was on twitter what is there a no tweet rule. And marshall and the rest of the d will get over it. This is a business. It will be treated as next man up much like an injury.  I could see if Simmons and Parker aren't ready but that's not the case.

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Belicheck sells when there is still value. There isn't going to be much return for TJ. I think it only makes sense if they genuinely view him as a liability. 

And honestly the front office should respect what the defense wants. They have trotted out an offense that can't even convert half the time on 3rd and 1 for the last two years lmao

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11 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Brandon Marshall speaking out against trading him. I don't think we need any public statements from Von and the DBs to know how they'd feel. That's the kind of move you make that makes it easier for players to quit when things get tough.

What Belichick does is unique. Everyone knows what kind of culture that is. All negative reinforcement, no loyalty to the individual. That's fine when you win 12 games every year on top of 5 Super Bowls. Really, we're going to point to a dynasty with a GOAT coach/GM-quarterback combination whose model has failed everywhere else around the league as an example to follow? If Elway tries his hand at that, this team better win more championships soon or this team's reputation around the league suffers. Now there's some variables.

This is an excellent point, Bruin. 

Everyone points to the the Pats any say, "see it works for them," but their situation is unique, to say the least. 

On the former point, this is the kind of move that would pissoff the lockerroom, especially veteran leaders. As you say, do you think guys like Von, Wolfe and the No Fly Zone will stay quiet about this. It could also be interpreted that this is almost a throw-away year. And a few of those aforementioned players took home town discounts to stay here and compete for world championships. Now, we can debate the merits of Ward's play relative to his contract, but there are some things you cannot measure. 

If Elway ends up trading Ward in next 7-10 days he is going to regret it, it'll create a headache for a rookie HC that he most certainly does not need. 

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6 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

It was on twitter what is there a no tweet rule. And marshall and the rest of the d will get over it. This is a business. It will be treated as next man up much like an injury.  I could see if Simmons and Parker aren't ready but that's not the case.

I disagree. I think Bruin is exactly right. You have to understand lockerroom psychology, the guys are not going to just get over it as you say and move on like it was injury. It will be treated as a slap in the face. 

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Now Von Miller and Derek Wolfe have joined Marshall in speaking out on it too. Denver had better tread lighly here. While I understand the logic, I get the impression that this is really not sitting well with the guys on our defense. Having a furious locker room is probably not the best thing to hand to a rookie head coach and brand new d-coordinator a week before the season starts. 

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Has Elway actually attempted to shop Ward?

From what I can see the Bears approached the Broncos about a possible trade for Ward and discussions took place.

Maybe it has happened but I haven't seen any indication that Elway is phoning up other teams trying to move Ward out of Denver.

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Realistically with 1200 guys about to hit the WW this Saturday I don't see anyone paying a big price for Ward.  His skill set is clearly in decline.  The only guys who teams are getting picks for are at premium positional need (OL) or who are young and cheaply controlled (Ragland). 

I wouldn't discount the angle that this is out there as to negate the whole 2018 extension talk and re-frame the collective mindset there.  There's no doubt IMO Ward's a goner and rightfully so given our S strength (year 2 isn't a lock but by year 3 talents like Parks/Simmons should be starter capable and frankly while it's not a given they could replace his play now, I'd actually be OK with it if the return was decent - but I don't think the market is there).  

To me if anything it just shows Elway sees a numbers crunch in our secondary roster given our S depth.   It's a good problem to have.    

 

 

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17 minutes ago, champ11 said:

apparently they want him to take a pay cut? how does this benefit us at this point

Obviously we are bringing PFM and/or Romo out of retirement and we need to pay 'em.

I figured they wanted to keep Carter on the active roster but maybe salary was the main reason, who know?

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