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Broncos Shopping SS TJ Ward - CUT Signs w TB


elliot878

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47 minutes ago, champ11 said:

apparently they want him to take a pay cut? how does this benefit us at this point

Well our 2018 cap situation is pretty dire, I think we're 24th or 25th out of 32 teams with 2017-18 combined $ left.  Doesn't affect our 2017 cap, but rollover matters.   It's not enough to justify a cut alone, but if you get a 1.5M reduction, then even at declining play, hard not to call it a win for the org.

Problem it sends a clear message is that DEN has no problem paying guys at value when they are bargains, but to then ask for a pay cut when they aren't roster bubble guys....worse optics.  Stephenson wasn't worth anything but almost min-wage salary - which he agreed to.  That's different, and justifiable.  This could be argued as justifiable...but man, given the history of Ward's tenure with DEN....a much tougher sell in the locker room, I'm sure.

I actually think the 2nd-year guys *might* be able to fill his shoes this year given Ward's pass coverage deficiencies are getting worse...but might isn't the same as being sure.  I am quite comfortable about the chances in 2018, given Ward will be a year older, and 2 years of experience, those youngsters have no reason not to be ready.   But the optics are iffy here, for sure.   Life in the NFL sure is team-friendly.

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11 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Well our 2018 cap situation is pretty dire, I think we're 24th or 25th out of 32 teams with 2017-18 combined $ left.  Doesn't affect our 2017 cap, but rollover matters.   It's not enough to justify a cut alone, but if you get a 1.5M reduction, then even at declining play, hard not to call it a win for the org.

Problem it sends a clear message is that DEN has no problem paying guys at value when they are bargains, but to then ask for a pay cut when they aren't roster bubble guys....worse optics.  Stephenson wasn't worth anything but almost min-wage salary - which he agreed to.  That's different, and justifiable.  This could be argued as justifiable...but man, given the history of Ward's tenure with DEN....a much tougher sell in the locker room, I'm sure.

I actually think the 2nd-year guys *might* be able to fill his shoes this year given Ward's pass coverage deficiencies are getting worse...but might isn't the same as being sure.  I am quite comfortable about the chances in 2018, given Ward will be a year older, and 2 years of experience, those youngsters have no reason not to be ready.   But the optics are iffy here, for sure.   Life in the NFL sure is team-friendly.

Yeah, said it a million times.......life as an NFL front office from a contract perspective is so easy. Makes following the NBA much more entertaining from a team building standpoint. 

But yeah, I'm not seeing the value here unless he really is not good anymore. Which does not seem to be the consensus on twitter from beat people. 

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I've said this on another forum, but making roster moves w/o factoring in team chemistry and morale is not wise. The players are not robots. Cutting/trading a key leader in the locker room just before the season begins is not going to go over well.

 

And please, no one bring up how New England does things. They operate completely different from any other organization due to black magic, witchcraft, having a sith lord as GM/HC, etc. 

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i'm far from a big TJ Ward fan, but to me his play hasn't deteriorated enough to make this move. It doesn't make sense from a money perspective, either. I can understand wanting to get the young guys in there in a starting capacity, I suppose. Still don't like the optics. 

And people on here were mad at Von Miller for getting as much guaranteed money as possible. 

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I get cutting Ward if you can replace his play with better coverage skills. If it's about money why not cut him earlier in the offseason? If the money Ward would be paid was going towards someone who could make a bigger impact at a position of need then sure I'm all for that.

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I think we are in a bad situation where we either bench TJ if he does bad and hurt his ego or we release/trade him to a team where can potentially start which mostly will kill moral. Maybe they view Simmons as our starting FS and Stewart as our new SS, idk. Maybe they want Parks in at the hybrid LB/S that Ward played a few times.

I saw we are trying to trade Latimer as well. What a horrible pick that was. He's legit ST gunner but sucks at wide out. Looks like we'll have DT, Sanders, Fowler, Sunshine,  and McKenzie as our WR's. Maybe Raymond makes the team?

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2 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

I think we are in a bad situation where we either bench TJ if he does bad and hurt his ego or we release/trade him to a team where can potentially start which mostly will kill moral. Maybe they view Simmons as our starting FS and Stewart as our new SS, idk. Maybe they want Parks in at the hybrid LB/S that Ward played a few times.

I saw we are trying to trade Latimer as well. What a horrible pick that was. He's legit ST gunner but sucks at wide out. Looks like we'll have DT, Sanders, Fowler, Sunshine,  and McKenzie as our WR's. Maybe Raymond makes the team?

They really like Jamal Carter too who fits the hybrid spot to a T. 

Basically everything behind DT and since Sanders got here has been meh. Haven't had anyone of any real threat at the 3rd spot since Welker. 

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35 minutes ago, broncosfan07 said:

I get cutting Ward if you can replace his play with better coverage skills. If it's about money why not cut him earlier in the offseason? If the money Ward would be paid was going towards someone who could make a bigger impact at a position of need then sure I'm all for that.

I actually think we will likely get just as if not better pass coverage skills from Parks/Simmons right now.  What I'm not convinced is that we get the run support / enforcement.   

I've been saying Ward is the weakest link in pass coverage by a mile since last offseason and that he wasn't worth re-signing after his deal expired.  That's still how I feel.   I do think we can match or improve our pass coverage without him.  But run D is where we are weakest.  If we had addressed run D more definitively I'd actually feel ok with the move from a pure football scheme perspective.    What sucks is that our run D is so thin we can't afford worse run support.  And that's his strength.  If we had addressed run D more we could afford this.   The PR fallout to me isn't nearly as problematic as having worse run support when we are really vulnerable there.  I'd actually be OK with taking the PR hit if we had similar pass D but at least the same run support.  Getting worse run support is a killer given how we are constructed right now. 

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FWIW one angle we haven't considered - has Ward faded due to lingering injury / wear & tear?   And that it's not just an isolated issue with his hamstring?

We haven't seen enough to really know given he's been scratched for the PS games.   To be fair to Elway & co. he's at the stage where decline happens quickly.   Could be the case here. 

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I think if we had Stewart at SS and Simmons at FS we'd still be good in run support at the back end. It's all going to be determined by our DL anyways. I think Ward was a hell of a blitzing safety and definitely provided the boom but he also whiffed which gave up big gains. He also cannot cover one on one anymore.

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38 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

I think if we had Stewart at SS and Simmons at FS we'd still be good in run support at the back end. It's all going to be determined by our DL anyways. I think Ward was a hell of a blitzing safety and definitely provided the boom but he also whiffed which gave up big gains. He also cannot cover one on one anymore

That was painfully evident last year.  We were still historically stingy vs. WR but TE and RB's abused us in the pass game.  Our other ILB (besides Marshall) and Ward were routinely abused in coverage  

If we do cut Ward for Elway that argument has to be the only one they take from a 2017 perspective.  We may find out more as well on Ward's physical issues afterwards. 

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This also means they think highly of Parks, he'd be replacing Ward as a nickel LB on 3rd downs. Dropping back into coverage, likely an upgrade. Around the line of scrimmage, it's definitely a downgrade. Ward is outstanding at timing blitzes and is a really good chess piece ine box. He's still an intimidating presence who brings a lot of energy to the rest of the team. No matter what happened this season, you could easily justify moving on.

I saw Simmons take poor angles to the ball and not bring much physicality to the run game. If a run pops through the front 7 I'd rather have Stewart back there.

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