BayRaider Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I think the App thing is overblown. There has been rumors since two weeks ago the league is already 250M in the hole and losing money rapidly. They wanted to be a NFL Developmental league but the NFLPA declined for player safety reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 2 hours ago, iknowcool said: Just because they were going to choose another future legend of the business to win KOTR, one who A) is a backstage politician and B) was best friends with the ultimate master politician in 90s HBK, doesn’t mean they weren’t going to push Austin. Again, he was paired with Ted DiBiase. And he was still their #2 choice to win KOTR. At the time, while obviously he got even more over after that, he still wasn’t the most over guy on the roster. They continued to push him and he was Hart’s first program upon his return. Suggesting they had no plans to push him is an absurd suggestion. Besides, what billlionaire do you know that became that without other extremely talented people working for them? You can’t put all the “mistakes” on him and then not give him credit for any of the success. Also, you’re acting like their growth just stopped after expansion and after the Monday Wars (and acting like the WWF’s dramatic increase in product wasn’t a huge reason they won is discrediting too much). They have continued to grow since and have seen a huge growth in the last 5 years alone. If what you are saying is true and Vince’s success was only because of WCW’s failure and expanding in the 80s, then WWE would have either long started to falter or remain stagnant. That hasn’t been the case at all. If we are saying a billionaire can’t be a good businessman if he had resources to begin with, made mistakes, and at one point struggled against great competition backed with a crap ton of money, then nobody is a good businessman then. 1. Yeah but you said they planned on pushing Stone Cold based off of those factors. That was not the case. Austin’s character was him taking his career in his own hands despite stupidity from management and the King of the Ring win was a happy accident. Without the latter, Austin 3:16 never happens and who knows if and when Auston catches fire and if he is getting a big push. The point stands, they never planned to push him when they did. 2. Being paired with Ted Dibiase didn’t mean anything and he was only with him very briefly and that was because it was part of the Ringmaster gimmick. 3. No there were no plans to push him to be the face of the company. Did they want him to do well? Sure. No he wasn’t meant to be the next guy. All of this is documented by the people involved btw. 4. I didn’t put all the mistakes on him and not give him credit for success. The two biggest successes Vince had was recognizing that cable television would open the door for a promotion to go national. Competing with the territories was going to happen at one point, he saw it first. It helped tremendously that Verne Gagne didn’t know what the hell he had in Hulk Hogan and that Rocky III made him a household name. Hogan would not have become “as” big without that. Hogan being a megastar is what allowed Vince to be more effective in enacting his plan to compete. The first WrestleMania was also his other big success. Part of it was him having an idea, part of it was just luck. If someone competent like Bischoff was running one of the old territories instead of some geezer who was out of touch, then things would have went differently. And yeah Vince got lucky multiple times. Austin bailed him out of bankruptcy. WCW employed the exact same tactic that Vince used on the territories (poaching talent and going head to head) and they nearly did the same to him. Vince also wasn’t the reason WCW went out of business. Idiots started making decisions and the Time Warner merger filled the boardroom with people who wanted nothing to do with wrestling. 5. What I’m saying is that Vince going national and later getting rid of his biggest competitor (for the reasons I stated) created a monopoly on the wrestling industry. From there, Vince with no road blocks spent the next two decades trying to push his product globally in more markets and attaching additional revenue streams. But his core business is not as strong. He got big enough that he created a bubble that has insulated him from failure. His main product has been hemoraging its fanbase for well over a decade. He’s just found ways to squeeze more out of his revenue streams. He’s not exactly running a healthy perfect business where everything is going great. If Vince got anywhere near late 90’s viewers he’d be able to triple his tv deals for instance. The PPV market is dead for WWE as well. 6. I’m saying it’s foolhardy to associate billionaires with being great at business. Vince inherited an already strong brand from his father, he got the biggest star in wrestling history made for him on a movie set, he outfought a bunch of out of touch old guys to gain market share, when a true competitor arose he nearly died before stumbling as backwards into Austin which saved him and then that competition died due to many factors that had nothing to do with Vince. With no competition in the market he began to monopolize and expand revenue streams to make sure he was safeguarded from failure. So now as his core product is actually under delivering, he is able to make enough money off of it to still be successful (that last part is smart, but it was borne out of a lot of circumstance and luck to get there) And lastly it is not applicable to the XFL being successful. Vince’s core product was far more popular during the original XFL. Vince Fanny succeeded outside of wrestling. To say “oh Vince is a genius billionaire and will do well here because of that is silly”. 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SweetFancyMoses Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 On 4/2/2019 at 3:00 PM, Thelonebillsfan said: The XFL certainly isn't going to be better lol. The only reason it'll last longer is because Vince will burn money to keep it afloat thanks to his ego and terrible business acumen. Pretty certain Vince has some business acumen, when he turned his father's regional wrestling company into a Global Entertainment Company. His own net worth is 3 billion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 I imagine half the players from the aaf will get contracts with xfl, the rest ones anyway. There really can't be that many football players round of sub nfl quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 21 minutes ago, SweetFancyMoses said: Pretty certain Vince has some business acumen, when he turned his father's regional wrestling company into a Global Entertainment Company. His own net worth is 3 billion. Yeah I’m not sure why people are calling him a bad businessman. Vince has come a long way. He is absolutely relentless, always thinking outside the box, and not afraid to lose money. Ebersol pulled the plug last time. Vince can learn from XFL first failed endeavor and AAF’s current failed endeavor. - Make Fantasy a huge option in this with a XFL app - Make the games entertaining with offense favorable rules - Recruit high school players with signing bonuses with 3 year contracts - Entertaining commentators. 95% of the NFL TV commentators are awful. Some good radio ones though. I mean there’s a lot of other things they can do to grow and stay alive and be a nice alternative to the NFL. They’ll never compete with the NFL, unless they somehow stay alive 15-20 years and start stealing away popularity. Vince might target kids in the 5-13 year old range. This is how WWE has been successful so long. You hook em while their young just like tobacco companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtahUtesFan Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Oliver Luck has said that the XFL's budgets have been planned for 20,000 people or so. I think the AAF was 13k-15k median attendance. I'm interested to see the XFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roninho Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 How can you start a league and not have the money to run it for a couple of months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Roninho said: How can you start a league and not have the money to run it for a couple of months? It's like they were expecting (hoping?) to see some sort of profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 17 hours ago, lancerman said: 1. Yeah but you said they planned on pushing Stone Cold based off of those factors. That was not the case. Austin’s character was him taking his career in his own hands despite stupidity from management and the King of the Ring win was a happy accident. Without the latter, Austin 3:16 never happens and who knows if and when Auston catches fire and if he is getting a big push. The point stands, they never planned to push him when they did. 2. Being paired with Ted Dibiase didn’t mean anything and he was only with him very briefly and that was because it was part of the Ringmaster gimmick. 3. No there were no plans to push him to be the face of the company. Did they want him to do well? Sure. No he wasn’t meant to be the next guy. All of this is documented by the people involved btw. Agree to disagree on the rest (I agree being a billionaire doesn't automatically make one great at business, I just don't think it's fair to say Vince is bad at business either), but they did plan on pushing him based off those factors. What makes you think they didn't? Your original post wasn't "they weren't planning to push him as the biggest star in wrestling history", it was "they weren't planning on pushing him", and the truth is they absolutely were planning to push him. Maybe they weren't planning to do it through the King of the Ring (but the fact he was their first choice after Hunter should mean something), but there is no reason to think that they weren't going to push him. I'm not sure what you have read to suggest they weren't going to. He already had a WrestleMania win in less than a year in the company, which was a big deal then. Also, in his first Royal Rumble (before KOTR '96), Austin was scripted to be in the Final 4 but accidentally failed to hang on (Austin in the interview where he says this even says he was having a great push for someone in his first year). In the PPV before KOTR, Austin separated from DiBiase and began his Stone Cold persona. They were already making it clear they had plans for him. I believe Austin also challenged Michaels on Raw for the WWF Championship sometime before KOTR. Also it is revisionist history to say Austin just automatically became a superstar or even close to that after KOTR. As a matter of fact, 2 months later, Austin wasn't even booked on the SummerSlam card - he was in a dark match. KOTR was huge for him, but it was just planting the seeds. It was the amazing booking of his feud with Hart, along with both performers obviously being great at their job, that helped promote Austin's growth even further. The double turn at WM 13, for example, was fantastic story-telling and creative (some of the best they have ever done), but you are making it seem like it was solely Austin and nothing to do with creative, which flat-out isn't true. It was a mixture of a long of things. If Austin/Hart flamed out, or we don't get the amazing story heading into WM 13 and after, who knows how big Austin gets. But he definitely didn't become this big mega star after the 3:16 promo - that was simply planting the seeds for what was to come. It was after Austin/Hart that Austin became the most over guy on the roster. Besides, Austin was a veteran of the business by the time he signed with the company. And his Stone Cold gimmick actually started in ECW. So everyone knew how good Austin was from either his performances in ECW or in WCW, who stupidly released him and everyone knew it then. You make it seem like he came out of nowhere, but everyone knew he was talented as hell including Vince. Now maybe you can argue they shouldn't have given him the Ringmaster gimmick off bat, but they were definitely trying to push him. I don't think it's fair to hold it against Vince if the logic is "they weren't planning on him being the biggest wrestling star ever" - nobody plans that. Belichick didn't plan on starting Brady and for him to become the GOAT. If Bledsoe doesn't get hurt, Brady might have stayed a back-up or went to another team. And nobody is gonna argue Belichick is a lesser coach because of that. I don't think it's fair to say Vince is any better or worse because he didn't immediately push Austin to the World Championship. It takes time, but all the signs were there. Austin didn't just become a star overnight. It was a very gradual thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 On 4/2/2019 at 2:38 PM, Here'sJim said: https://corporate.wwe.com/investors/news/press-releases/2018/07-26-2018-133155541 In Q2 of 2018 (span of 3 months), the WWE had a net revenue of almost 300 million. I don't know where this money is coming from (that many love the WWE???), but if there is anyone who can fund a league that will lose money for 3 years, he's the guy. Wrestlemania is in the 2nd qtr every year. The vast majority of wwe money comes from the wwe network, which of course includes all ppvs. Also Vince made a deal with the devil for a huge cash influx, but requires the wwe to travel to Saudi Arabia for the next 9 years. Vince's empire was but on the backs of its megastars of the 80s and particularly the 90s and is now basically a self-sustaining juggernaut without any real competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Saying Vince was all a product of luck and poaching the competition isnt really looking at the whole picture. There was an unspoken agreement that the territories didnt compete. Vince was the first to take his territory into others. Bruno did not really help Vince build the WWE as his career was mostly over by the time Vince took the reigns. Vince got the wwe on nat'l tv, not the first mind you, but he put a product on the air and made it look like a spectacle. He didnt create the ppg, but he revolutionized it making it not just a wrestling event, but a pop culture one as well. They had great storytelling (and still do occasionally like the new Daniel Bryan v. Kofimania) Vince isnt perfect, and he sticks his nose in creative far too often. But how many global entertainment companies can you name that are home grown. (Oh and the Rock was supposed to become the face of the company, not Austin, but the people revolted, just like with Reigns, and it was only when they took the tether off the Hurricane that he took off) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastercheddaar Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 9 hours ago, Roninho said: How can you start a league and not have the money to run it for a couple of months? Poor business planning. For the first year, you cannot assume your business or product will turn a profit. They were hoping people would show up and buy tickets. People really didn't care. Go Birds Mastercheddaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Vince will do a much better job promoting and advertising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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