A Philosophical Examination of the Sport Mind (Buncha Jerks Cost Us Rings)

[TheOnlyThing]

2 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Defend what? Like his dementia or whatever possible health issues are his fault? Don’t think it’s reallt something to crack a joke about. 

if anything, it’s others fault for not replacing him sooner since he obviously wasn’t all there?

Nobody can blame the former GM if the reason that he performed so poorly over the latter part of his career is due to poor health and I certainly agree that whatever unconfirmed and unspecified malady or maladies he may suffer from are nothing to joke about.

I also agree that the Packers organization in its entirety shares blame for allowing him to continue on as long as he did given how poorly he was performing his duties.

But anyone contending that the prior GM's RECORD has not been DEFENDED to the hilt by certain of his most zealous fans is either in denial or is new to this site. 

In the end, whether it was due to poor health, the loss of Dorsey, Schneider, or something else, the performance of the previous GM markedly deteriorated over the latter half of his tenure in Green Bay and that is something many of his DEFENDERS have had a hard time digesting.

[JaireAlex]

3 minutes ago, James Lofton said:

Wow. Quite the read. Still digesting. The article is all over the place with plenty of blame to go around... reflecting the different opinions. Always wondered why we didn't win a couple more rings after 2010.

Also has to do with Nick Collins, Finley, Williams, Shields, Woodson, Nelson, injuries. Brutal and the Sherrod disaster.

So while it was mainly on Mac, those kinds of injuries were more than he could handle. He was still an above average coach who went South around 2014.

[cannondale]

2015-2016 the Packers were in the playoffs. They weren't gonna fire the staff. The next year Rodgers went down and the year after the wheels fell off. If you want to complain about something Capers was around 5 years too long

[HighCalebR]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap3000001025417/James-Jones-on-B-R-report-Don-t-remember-this-stuff-going-on

James Jones weighs in.

[Norm]

Just now, HighCalebR said:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap3000001025417/James-Jones-on-B-R-report-Don-t-remember-this-stuff-going-on

James Jones weighs in.

Lol just came up post this

Here's direct link to tweet with the video too that might be easier to use

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFLTotalAccess/status/1113945614616674304?s=19

[Leader]

The Packers should draft a QB this year......
MLF should whisper in AR's ear: "We think he's better than you....."

HA!

2018 (or earlier) is past.
The 2019 draft and season is upon us.
To hell with the drama of 2018 (or earlier).
It's in the past.

Closed book for me. Everybody will get judged on how well they perform - now - and going forward.

[Norm]

I've been waiting months to use this myself for once. Sweet release

 

[Scoremore]

14 minutes ago, Leader said:

The Packers should draft a QB this year......
MLF should whisper in AR's ear: "We think he's better than you....."

 

That would certainly light a fire under him.  Still say ship #30 to the Cards and get Rosen.  Ship #12 to Pitt for #20 and #52 and we won't be out too much.  Aaron goes down maybe the season isn't lost.  

[Cakeshoppe]

Thoughts on some of the specific claims in the article:

 

Rodgers:

-Hated McCarthy from the start due because of Alex Smith

This is probably the claim in the article that I find hardest to believe. For as many clips that you can find of Rogers being openly hostile toward MM, you can find several of Rodgers joking with him on the sidelines, and the two spending time together when Rodgers could just as easily be anywhere else on the sideline. That’s not how you behave around someone you hate. Any evidence toward this is also entirely speculation by anyone that talked about it. I’d certainly believe that Rodgers kept that chip on his shoulder. But the way the article describes it doesn’t seem to ring true from the evidence available.

 

-Arrogant, hard to work with, holds grudges, etc.

We’ve heard this all from other sources. I have no problem believing any of it, to certain degrees. There’s also plenty of teammates (including those referenced in the article that seemed to get along with him just fine, or think it’s just the flipside of having a highly competitive personality. He certainly seems abrasive and certainly has issues he needs to work out. I’m not buying the Finley/Jennings line whole hog though.

 

Bad leadership qualities:

I’ve mentioned this before. I have no problem believing that Rodgers just wants to go out and play football and have nothing to do with being a leader or the face of the franchise. I don’t necessarily blame him for it. Others do and  think that factors into their opinions of him.

 

-went rogue/changing plays at the line.

Again, we knew some of this, it’s just a matter of degree.

 

Jennings/49ers story.

-I kind of believe it. We are getting the Jennings side so I doubt that it went down exactly as described, but it would certainly explain Jenning’s comments over the years.

 

-Overly hard on young receivers

Again, yes and no. We certainly know some of this is true. I actually think a lot of what is presented in the article is believable, but I think fans tend to overblow it, like you have to have been on the team during 2012 to get the ball thrown your way, or if you screw up you’re toast with Rodgers forever. Remember that Adams had a bunch of high-profile drops as a rookie and sucked eggs his second year, but still went on to be Rodgers’ favorite target. Rodgers reportedly caught on very quickly with Abbredaris and Kumerow, despite them being on the team only briefly at the time. I think the article put it well that he likes guys who think/work like he does.

 

MM:

 

-Checked out completely, was getting massages instead of attending meetings at the end.

That one’s tough to swallow. I’d guess there’s some grain of truth there, that likely got overblown and cloaked in rumors in the building. I 100% believe he was checked out the last two years, and that matches up from what we’ve heard from other sources as well.

 

-Low Football IQ

I don’t believe the claim that he’s seen as a buffoon who lucked into two HOF QBs that  gifted him the second best franchise in the league over a decade. Remember how Belichick talked about him after the 2014 meeting. Plenty of other legitimately very football-smart people have laded him over the years as well. I do think he’s a better practice coach than gameday coach though, and that his scheme didn’t keep up with the times.

 

-Scheme was outdated

We’ve all heard this before from all sorts of sources.

 

-lack of accountability, complacency,  practices lead to a soft team:

again, this has been discussed ad nauseum this offseason. The “soft” allegation has been floating around for a while.

 

TT:

-Falling asleep at meetings, failing health:

This is legitimately worrying, though for a guy in his late 60s who spent probably close to 20 years playing football in the 60s-80s, you have to thing MCI/dementia may be a concern here.

 

-Failed to bring in free agents/failed to secure contracts for players already on the team

This was a bit of an odd claim. It’s obvious TT failed to bring in outside free agents, but he was never stingy with re-upping players who had already played for the team. It’s not like we constantly had tons of rollover cap. That money was getting spent. It’s odd to claim that both no new Agents (true) and no second contracts for existing players (false?)

 

-failing to keep leaders on the team

The article frams TT this way, but honestly all the leaders that Dunne cites TT losing (Sitton, Lang, Kuhn, Woodson, Pickett, Raji)weren’t worth the contracts he would have had to give to keep them. He let all those players walk at the right point in their careers. I think there are many valid criticisms of TT, but this isn’t one. If there was a leadership vacuum, it was because of a failure to cultivate leaders, not a failure to retain aging vets.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Cakeshoppe
ff hates me

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I have a hunch the Packers will seat Tyler Dunne right next to Bob McGinn on game days.

[n8ghee]

1 hour ago, Hands said:

This is a very sad commentary on the Packers. I'm shocked that Green Bay won any games last year. Between losing talent, scheme, and dysfunction, it's a wonder there wasn't a blow-up in the locker room. I know Rodgers will go into the HOF, but he will also be one of those QBs that never played up to his potential esp. during the playoffs. I always blamed it on MM....now I think AR gets a lot more blame.

Huh? Are you serious, or are you just buying what this hack author is selling? Were there some quotes used from the opposite side of the clear bias being shown in this article?  (maybe quotes from Jordy, Devante, James Jones, Julius Peppers, Charles Woodson, Philbin, Kuhn, others?) This article was written with a clear agenda, much like reading an article from a Liberal media perspective opposing a Conservative political candidate (or vice versa).

There is literally zero new data in this article that we didnt already know about Rodgers. It was just cherry picked and twisted into a manner to create an uproar. Finley/Jennings/Unnamed Sources are ALL of the 'damning' quotes being used. Its like an article in the National Enquirer.

And your "Especially during the playoffs" quote shows just how clueless you are.

[PossibleCabbage]

39 minutes ago, cannondale said:

2015-2016 the Packers were in the playoffs. They weren't gonna fire the staff. The next year Rodgers went down and the year after the wheels fell off. If you want to complain about something Capers was around 5 years too long

Not firing McCarthy after that Seattle game made him much harder to fire any other time.

[Green19]

1 hour ago, Arthur Penske said:

On the messages. Sorry but I don’t buy that part. 

 

But of course he needs to say that. That’s not proof it didn’t happen. Just like the article isn’t proof it did. It’s more interesting that someone would claim it. And there needs to be alittle smoke there, it’s not completely untrue I’m assuming. He likely didn’t miss meetings. But he likely took time for a massage when others felt he shouldn’t.

[Norm]

7 minutes ago, Green19 said:

But of course he needs to say that. That’s not proof it didn’t happen. Just like the article isn’t proof it did. It’s more interesting that someone would claim it. And there needs to be alittle smoke there, it’s not completely untrue I’m assuming. He likely didn’t miss meetings. But he likely took time for a massage when others felt he shouldn’t.

NFL coaches work stupid hours. Heaven forbid they find a time at work to get a massage. Not directed at you at all... Just seems exaggerated and silly. 

I might not love Mike's personality a ton necessarily but he's never struck me as a liar. When he said he was shocked they fired him that made me feel like he was naive or he really never checked out and all that jazz.

Dunne seriously probably destroyed his career in GB tbh. Sounds extreme but that's my feeling. 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Norm

[Leader]

6 minutes ago, Green19 said:

But he likely took time for a massage when others felt he shouldn’t.

And who amongst us hasnt taken a massage when others (probably) would have felt we shouldnt (if they knew)?