A Philosophical Examination of the Sport Mind (Buncha Jerks Cost Us Rings)

[MantyWrestler]

20 minutes ago, Scoremore said:

That would certainly light a fire under him.  Still say ship #30 to the Cards and get Rosen.  Ship #12 to Pitt for #20 and #52 and we won't be out too much.  Aaron goes down maybe the season isn't lost.  

If the Cardinals take a QB at #1 then to me that lowers Rosen’s value. If they bail on him anger 1 year no way I give more than a second for him. Tops!

[Green19]

5 minutes ago, Leader said:

And who amongst us hasnt taken a massage when others (probably) would have felt we shouldnt (if they knew)?

And I agree. Just like norm said... I can relate. I would “sneak” away too if half the stuff in that article was going on.

I don’t blame McCarthy for that. I again find it interesting a player an office member made THOSE comments. And you can’t make them if you can’t bend that truth. So he took massages... and likely someone got wind of it and felt it was a sign he got soft.

Lets say it was Aaron was that source... just as a practice. Aaron could be like dang I’m out here trying to make this work and he is getting massages? I’m putting in more hours and he gets a back rub? You can just see everyone involved got petty because we are now talking about massages.

[JaireAlex]

25 minutes ago, Cakeshoppe said:

Thoughts on some of the specific claims in the article:

 

 

Rodgers:

-Hated McCarthy from the start due because of Alex Smith

This is probably the claim in the article that I find hardest to believe. For as many clips that you can find of Rogers being openly hostile toward MM, you can find several of Rodgers joking with him on the sidelines, and the two spending time together when Rodgers could just as easily be anywhere else on the sideline. That’s not how you behave around someone you hate. Any evidence toward this is also entirely speculation by anyone that talked about it. I’d certainly believe that Rodgers kept that chip on his shoulder. But the way the article describes it doesn’t seem to ring true from the evidence available.

 

-Arrogant, hard to work with, holds grudges, etc.

We’ve heard this all from other sources. I have no problem believing any of it, to certain degrees. There’s also plenty of teammates (including those referenced in the article that seemed to get along with him just fine, or think it’s just the flipside of having a highly competitive personality. He certainly seems abrasive and certainly has issues he needs to work out. I’m not buying the Finley/Jennings line whole hog though.

 

Bad leadership qualities:

I’ve mentioned this before. I have no problem believing that Rodgers just wants to go out and play football and have nothing to do with being a leader or the face of the franchise. I don’t necessarily blame him for it. Others do and  think that factors into their opinions of him.

 

-went rogue/changing plays at the line.

Again, we knew some of this, it’s just a matter of degree.

 

Jennings/49ers story.

-I kind of believe it. We are getting the Jennings side so I doubt that it went down exactly as described, but it would certainly explain Jenning’s comments over the years.

 

-Overly hard on young receivers

Again, yes and no. We certainly know some of this is true. I actually think a lot of what is presented in the article is believable, but I think fans tend to overblow it, like you have to have been on the team during 2012 to get the ball thrown your way, or if you screw up you’re toast with Rodgers forever. Remember that Adams had a bunch of high-profile drops as a rookie and sucked eggs his second year, but still went on to be Rodgers’ favorite target. Rodgers reportedly caught on very quickly with Abbredaris and Kumerow, despite them being on the team only briefly at the time. I think the article put it well that he likes guys who think/work like he does.

 

MM:

 

-Checked out completely, was getting massages instead of attending meetings at the end.

That one’s tough to swallow. I’d guess there’s some grain of truth there, that likely got overblown and cloaked in rumors in the building. I 100% believe he was checked out the last two years, and that matches up from what we’ve heard from other sources as well.

 

-Low Football IQ

I don’t believe the claim that he’s seen as a buffoon who lucked into two HOF QBs that  gifted him the second best franchise in the league over a decade. Remember how Belichick talked about him after the 2014 meeting. Plenty of other legitimately very football-smart people have laded him over the years as well. I do think he’s a better practice coach than gameday coach though, and that his scheme didn’t keep up with the times.

 

-Scheme was outdated

We’ve all heard this before from all sorts of sources.

 

-lack of accountability, complacency,  practices lead to a soft team:

again, this has been discussed ad nauseum this offseason. The “soft” allegation has been floating around for a while.

 

TT:

-Falling asleep at meetings, failing health:

This is legitimately worrying, though for a guy in his late 60s who spent probably close to 20 years playing football in the 60s-80s, you have to thing MCI/dementia may be a concern here.

 

-Failed to bring in free agents/failed to secure contracts for players already on the team

This was a bit of an odd claim. It’s obvious TT failed to bring in outside free agents, but he was never stingy with re-upping players who had already played for the team. It’s not like we constantly had tons of rollover cap. That money was getting spent. It’s odd to claim that both no new Agents (true) and no second contracts for existing players (false?)

 

-failing to keep leaders on the team

The article frams TT this way, but honestly all the leaders that Dunne cites TT losing (Sitton, Lang, Kuhn, Woodson, Pickett, Raji)weren’t worth the contracts he would have had to give to keep them. He let all those players walk at the right point in their careers. I think there are many valid criticisms of TT, but this isn’t one. If there was a leadership vacuum, it was because of a failure to cultivate leaders, not a failure to retain aging vets.

Most of what's in article is true but exaggerated. Some real bad blood on the party that went to Cleveland. And there were many with names, just not the FO guys that left.

 

I think LaFleur is going to be great myself. Gute had a great draft last year. The FAs seem like very good pick ups and guys they knew really well. Rodgers can use some real heat and that might get him to get in line.

A good draft of great locker room guys and everyone forgets this in preseason.

[n8ghee]

I dont think people realize how lucky we are to have a QB of Rodgers ability. 

I imagine hes more rejuvinated than hes been in years...finally a fresh creative new scheme, a bunch of hate in the media, even a large number of Packers fans hating on him, a stable of young Offensive football minds in MLF/Hackett/Getsy...

I cant believe more of you arent as pumped as I am for this year. 

[Isherwood]

1 hour ago, Isherwood said:

I’ll defend him. The man was growing old and ill, and the organization knew it. The rumors have been out there for at least 4 years, and in the last year Demo and McGinn have both confirmed that they were true. That part is on Mark Murphy and the rest of the Packers brass. I can’t fault a guy who is trying to hold onto his faculties when his physical and mental abilities are starting to fail him. I feel badly for him, but GB should have respectfully taken care of it sooner and better 

Just because it's come up since I wrote this, no I do not overlook the drafts after 2010 that he didn't get much out of, nor his lack of free agent pursuit. TT was definitely not a perfect GM, but if it's true that he's been ill since the the 2015 pre-draft process (the timeline I've heard), I don't blame him for things after that. That's all on the org. I'll remember him fondly for being thr captain of a ship that put together a super bowl caliber roster and a new 34 defense very quickly with a young QB after a tumultuous time with Brett Favre, and wish he could have done a little better from 2011-2015.

As far as Rosen goes, I'd pass on trying to coach another Aaron Rodgers personality, without Rodgers' talent, thanks. 

 

 

[Packerraymond]

Seems like a slanted piece from the start the more I read it. Dunne is a former Packers beat, wonder if the end of his time was rough for him and he has a bone to pick.

Where's Jordy, AJ Hawk, Lang, Kuhn, James Jones, Woodson, Nick Collins, Crabtree, etc? Guys that are openly pro Packers/Rodgers since leaving town. You telling me none of them were available to talk or did you reason that their viewpoint didn't fit your agenda? Instead you get Jennings who still is upset we didn't pay him, Finley who's the big lovable doofus you can get to say anything you want him to and Grant who said nothing of substance. As others have said, the unnamed people are certainly those still in the league, how easy would it be to seek out Wolf? Highsmith? AVP? Etc, guys you know probably aren't pleased at how things ended.

Seems more like Tyler Dunne wanted to write and article about Packers dysfunction and found the sources he needed to back him up than a guy who truly sought the issues of the Packers.

Why weren't we a dynasty? I'll tell you, Ted stopped being able to maintain his high hit rate in the draft and kept paying offensive players 2nd contracts instead of spending on defensive FAs and re-building the O through the draft, the side of the ball he was far superior in drafting.

[Isherwood]

Don't forget about this gem: https://www.si.com/mmqb/2015/09/09/aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-tom-clements-green-back-packers-avoiding-interceptions

"I desperately want to be coached"

I think, right or wrong, it's clear that he was feeling that Mike McCarthy was not doing that for him.

Everything Matt LaFleur has said, which I believe is very calculated towards speaking to Rodgers' past comments, is that he and the OC and the QB coach coaching him hard will not be a problem. 

[Norm]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

wonder if the end of his time was rough for him and he has a bone to pick.

Exactly what was in my mind when I said he's probably done in GB.... Maybe he already was on his way out. It'll look ****ty af if he's out soon but he can blame it on them being mad for this piece I guess too. 

Edit, I don't think Wolf and those guys would go on record with jobs elsewhere. I sure as hell wouldn't. 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Norm

[n8ghee]

5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Seems like a slanted piece from the start the more I read it. Dunne is a former Packers beat, wonder if the end of his time was rough for him and he has a bone to pick.

Where's Jordy, AJ Hawk, Lang, Kuhn, James Jones, Woodson, Nick Collins, Crabtree, etc? Guys that are openly pro Packers/Rodgers since leaving town. You telling me none of them were available to talk or did you reason that their viewpoint didn't fit your agenda? Instead you get Jennings who still is upset we didn't pay him, Finley who's the big lovable doofus you can get to say anything you want him to and Grant who said nothing of substance. As others have said, the unnamed people are certainly those still in the league, how easy would it be to seek out Wolf? Highsmith? AVP? Etc, guys you know probably aren't pleased at how things ended.

Seems more like Tyler Dunne wanted to write and article about Packers dysfunction and found the sources he needed to back him up than a guy who truly sought the issues of the Packers.

Why weren't we a dynasty? I'll tell you, Ted stopped being able to maintain his high hit rate in the draft and kept paying offensive players 2nd contracts instead of spending on defensive FAs and re-building the O through the draft, the side of the ball he was far superior in drafting.

Finally...another person agreeing with the slant of this article.

 

And...another thing...some of these quotes from "unnamed sources" could potentially also be coming straight from Jennings and Finleys mouths as well, they just told him not to name them on those particular quotes.

 

[n8ghee]

I love how Rodgers has just sat back in the weeds during all of this offseason hate hes received. He's not even feeling the need to defend his name like a true Ego-maniacal or "Diva" type of person would. 

(dont get me wrong, dude is arrogant...dude has an ego...dude demands perfection...thats how great athletes are...but quit reading between some carefully curated lines)

 

Literally the only things we have even heard from him through all this hate has been:

-that his body was "feeling really, really good" 

-that hes "excited about whats going on in Green Bay and the future there."

-that he was happy to share the stage with Favre, and that he was thankful for Kuhn/Nelson/Sitton/Lang/etc.

Edited April 5, 2019 by n8ghee

[Packerraymond]

8 minutes ago, Norm said:

Exactly what was in my mind when I said he's probably done in GB.... Maybe he already was on his way out. It'll look ****ty af if he's out soon but he can blame it on them being mad for this piece I guess too. 

Edit, I don't think Wolf and those guys would go on record with jobs elsewhere. I sure as hell wouldn't. 

That's why they'd go unnamed to me. If Dunne spilled it was them his journalism career is over. A writer who gives up a confidential source is pretty much black listed.

[Norm]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

That's why they'd go unnamed to me. If Dunne spilled it was them his journalism career is over. A writer who gives up a confidential source is pretty much black listed.

Yeah but I was more meaning I'm not doing it period. Even without my name on it. There's no "positive" for them IMO. 

[Norm]

I imagine one day we'll get another Brandt of sorts that can be more honest and unbiased and maybe nail this down a little more

[wgbeethree]

20 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Seems like a slanted piece from the start the more I read it. Dunne is a former Packers beat, wonder if the end of his time was rough for him and he has a bone to pick.

Where's Jordy, AJ Hawk, Lang, Kuhn, James Jones, Woodson, Nick Collins, Crabtree, etc? Guys that are openly pro Packers/Rodgers since leaving town. You telling me none of them were available to talk or did you reason that their viewpoint didn't fit your agenda? Instead you get Jennings who still is upset we didn't pay him, Finley who's the big lovable doofus you can get to say anything you want him to and Grant who said nothing of substance. As others have said, the unnamed people are certainly those still in the league, how easy would it be to seek out Wolf? Highsmith? AVP? Etc, guys you know probably aren't pleased at how things ended.

Seems more like Tyler Dunne wanted to write and article about Packers dysfunction and found the sources he needed to back him up than a guy who truly sought the issues of the Packers.

Why weren't we a dynasty? I'll tell you, Ted stopped being able to maintain his high hit rate in the draft and kept paying offensive players 2nd contracts instead of spending on defensive FAs and re-building the O through the draft, the side of the ball he was far superior in drafting.

This line of thinking makes zero sense to me.

If the question is whether or not someone plays favorites and freezes out the rest of the guys why would you bother to go ask his favorites? Of course they are going to back them up no matter what. That's why they're the favorites in the first place.

I assume at some point we've all had teachers or bosses or even family members that CLEARLY showed favoritism to certain people over others. Do you really think in any of those situations if you asked the people on the recieving end of that favoritism about it that youd get anything other than "No, they're a great person and everything they do is completely merit based." 

 

 

 

[deltarich87]

2 hours ago, Arthur Penske said:

On the messages. Sorry but I don’t buy that part. 

 

real or not this is great material going forward

massages for everyone