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Another TE Prospect: Josh Oliver


soulman

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28 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

If you believe that his anxiety issue didn’t play a role in missing the playoff game then I think you are a little too trusting.

Him having anxiety that badly is fine, we just need to be prepared for it with a better answer than Braunecker.

Nagy and Pace have been nothing but honest about injuries and performance. Although puzzled initially, Nagy came out after the MRI and said it was worse than they thought.

No one beat the "Burton is a p****" drum harder than I did after the Eagles loss but it's been proven that it was a legitimate injury.

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2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Nagy and Pace have been nothing but honest about injuries and performance. Although puzzled initially, Nagy came out after the MRI and said it was worse than they thought.

No one beat the "Burton is a p****" drum harder than I did after the Eagles loss but it's been proven that it was a legitimate injury.

It has not been proven. It has been refuted by people who have a vested interest in doing so.

That is bias.

We actually have no idea how honest Pace and Nagy are because we do not know 90% of what goes on.

Nagy is covering for his guy. No one is too hurt to play Saturday night after a week of practice. I am not even mad at Burton, anxiety is legit, but we need a real option in case he has an episode again.

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2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

I'm not sure what to tell you guys. Medical tests confirmed the injury. He was hurt. It happens. 

You saw them?

Nagy told you that medical tests confirmed it, because if he had said I had an anxiety attack about playing my old team he would have been ripped apart and some people would not have gotten over it.

So you send him for an MRI, you see something, and you have some cover for the player. The team and Nagy did what they should do.

But, let’s not act like anything was proven.

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9 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

When did Burton admit that anxiety played a role in his groin injury?

In a recent interview in the Trib where he was asked about missing the playoff game.

He talked about how his body responds to them and how it worsened from Friday to Saturday.

With me it was my back.  I would get muscle spasms so bad I could barely walk from my sofa to the bathroom and you feel like you're having a heart attack.  I ended up having to take Flexeril to deal with the spasms and while a 10-20mg hit of Flexeril works great on muscle issues I sure as hell wouldn't want to play football after taking it or much of anything else for that matter.  You mostly just sleep.

I don't know the extent of his injury all I know is he said the anxiety attack worsened whatever was involved.  He also spoke about a game where Nagy had the same play Philly used in the SB where he threw the TD pass in his game plan and Burton because of anxiety asked Nagy to have Cohen make the pass instead which he did and we scored.

It's not make believe brother.  It's real and it's scary and it's the single most debilitating thing I've ever experienced.  I had to cancel business appointments or reschedule them because I couldn't even drive a car when one hit or make sense speaking with a client.  Hard to describe to someone whose never experienced one and no one should ever want to either.

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FWIW Burton is basically just a possession WR who lines up close to the formation at 6’3” 235lb. Wims is 6’3” 220ish. I suspect that in a pinch he could pick up some of that slack. I also think the problem with Burton last year was only as much an issue as it was in the playoff game because he didn’t become unavailable until after the gameplan was fully installed and in which he was a significant part. I don’t question that Braunecker isn’t the best guy to fill those shoes, but we also have a more diverse set of other weapons around whom we can customize a gameplan when Nagy has more than 18 hours or so to do it. I agree that we need another guy, but taking one in the mid rounds seems like a stretch to me. We only really have a TE issue if our top two guys go down. I just think we have bigger depth needs elsewhere. To me if this is a serious concern to the staff then a veteran (after the comp pick window closes) makes more sense to me than a rookie. Give me someone I know what I’m getting if we’re talking about TE3. Odds are a rookie mid or late round TE won’t be ready for a significant role if called upon in this scenario anyway which for purposes of 2019 depth would then make it a wasted pick. 

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6 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

FWIW Burton is basically just a possession WR who lines up close to the formation at 6’3” 235lb. Wims is 6’3” 220ish. I suspect that in a pinch he could pick up some of that slack. I also think the problem with Burton last year was only as much an issue as it was in the playoff game because he didn’t become unavailable until after the gameplan was fully installed and in which he was a significant part. I don’t question that Braunecker isn’t the best guy to fill those shoes, but we also have a more diverse set of other weapons around whom we can customize a gameplan when Nagy has more than 18 hours or so to do it. I agree that we need another guy, but taking one in the mid rounds seems like a stretch to me. We only really have a TE issue if our top two guys go down. I just think we have bigger depth needs elsewhere. To me if this is a serious concern to the staff then a veteran (after the comp pick window closes) makes more sense to me than a rookie. Give me someone I know what I’m getting if we’re talking about TE3. Odds are a rookie mid or late round TE won’t be ready for a significant role if called upon in this scenario anyway which for purposes of 2019 depth would then make it a wasted pick. 

Disagree, our #2 gut is a constantly injured disappointing high pick.

We have 1 guy, 1 question mark, and 1 special teamer.

This is a tight end heavy offense and while I believe Nagy can adapt a game plan, I would rather him not have to do that and instead put together the best game plan he can, no qualifiers.

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What positions are greater needs than TE?

RB

K

I think my list is done. We have significantly more depth and talent at OLB, at CB McManis proved he can play the slot and Tolliver is at least the same level of question mark as Shaheen. Maybe OG, but Larsen is a legit backup and the need there is really 2020.

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And the active on game days is less of a concern to me. One I think they will happily activate 4 TEs if they have one worth it. Two, it is about having someone you can go to when Shaheen gets injured. I am uninterested in seeing 10 games of Braunecker starting at the Y or watching a hobbled Shaheen run around like an OT.

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My overview as of today is three positions stand out to me as needs and not wishes.

RB - Mike Davis needs a partner and we need to add a young RB to the mix.

TE - If we forego keeping a FB we could very easily suit 4 TEs on game days.

SS - We have no SS under contract beyond 2019 so I'd call this a primary need.

I have no idea what order Pace may take them in but I do believe these are the three positions he'll try to fill in rounds 3-5.

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11 hours ago, soulman said:

In a recent interview in the Trib where he was asked about missing the playoff game.

He talked about how his body responds to them and how it worsened from Friday to Saturday.

With me it was my back.  I would get muscle spasms so bad I could barely walk from my sofa to the bathroom and you feel like you're having a heart attack.  I ended up having to take Flexeril to deal with the spasms and while a 10-20mg hit of Flexeril works great on muscle issues I sure as hell wouldn't want to play football after taking it or much of anything else for that matter.  You mostly just sleep.

I don't know the extent of his injury all I know is he said the anxiety attack worsened whatever was involved.  He also spoke about a game where Nagy had the same play Philly used in the SB where he threw the TD pass in his game plan and Burton because of anxiety asked Nagy to have Cohen make the pass instead which he did and we scored.

It's not make believe brother.  It's real and it's scary and it's the single most debilitating thing I've ever experienced.  I had to cancel business appointments or reschedule them because I couldn't even drive a car when one hit or make sense speaking with a client.  Hard to describe to someone whose never experienced one and no one should ever want to either.

Yeah he talked about how the injury worsened from Friday to Saturday, not that anxiety was the reason for it.

I know how bad anxiety is. My brother has a pretty severe case, although it can be argued that all cases are severe. All I'm saying is that while it seems fishy, he also played the prior year and had some really good games including one of the more important throws in Super Bowl history. It would seem bizarre for him to then get a weird case before a wild card game after that kind of playoff run, and while anything is possible, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

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1 minute ago, beardown3231 said:

Yeah he talked about how the injury worsened from Friday to Saturday, not that anxiety was the reason for it.

I know how bad anxiety is. My brother has a pretty severe case, although it can be argued that all cases are severe. All I'm saying is that while it seems fishy, he also played the prior year and had some really good games including one of the more important throws in Super Bowl history. It would seem bizarre for him to then get a weird case before a wild card game after that kind of playoff run, and while anything is possible, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I guess we interpret what was said by Burton differently then.

I can neither confirm or deny the severity of the injury but as Windy posted there is a very good likelihood it was mischaracterized at the time to avoid any embarrassment it may have caused.  Months later that became less of an issue and he's more willing to admit it's impact just as he admitted being asked to be let out of executing a play he had done previously and successfully in the Super Bowl.

It's also not weird at all.  Anxiety attacks can be as unpredictable as Colorado weather.  Like some other psychological and/or medical issues stress can play a huge role in their onset and with a person's brain chemistry.  I was over 40 years old when I had my first one and it shocked me.

I am not by my nature an anxious or fearful person.  Quite the opposite actually and there were times I was fine when I left my house but 10 minutes later while driving one hit and I had to turn around and go home because it was too dangerous for me to even drive safely.  They're very unpredictable.

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13 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Disagree, our #2 gut is a constantly injured disappointing high pick.

We have 1 guy, 1 question mark, and 1 special teamer.

This is a tight end heavy offense and while I believe Nagy can adapt a game plan, I would rather him not have to do that and instead put together the best game plan he can, no qualifiers.

But you don’t question that, if healthy, Burton and Shaheen are 1/2 at least for 2019, right? I do, and if so then your #3 is a depth player where IMO the floor is more important than the ceiling. He’s gotta be a backup capable of filling a role as a move TE. He may not play much or at all outside of attrition, but if he does he has to be able to meet a certain base threshold of competence or he adds nothing more than Braunecker. Small school traits guy mid-late round pick rookie isn’t that. To me that’s a 1-year vet deal role. There aren’t many of those guys out there at the moment, but a ton of TEs are about to get drafted and because of that I’d expect them to be out there for us in a few weeks. 

Before he got hurt in the preseason Shaheen looked to be everything we were hoping he’d be. Of course I have concerns about injury but he’s going to get a chance to be that guy again this year at least IMO. 

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13 hours ago, WindyCity said:

What positions are greater needs than TE?

RB

K

I think my list is done. We have significantly more depth and talent at OLB, at CB McManis proved he can play the slot and Tolliver is at least the same level of question mark as Shaheen. Maybe OG, but Larsen is a legit backup and the need there is really 2020.

I haven’t seen anything yet from Tolliver to date suggesting he’s a future starter. At least Shaheen has flashed in the preseason and in the red zone. 

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