John Dorsey

[onejayhawk]

Now that he has been gone a year and looking at what he has done in the land of Cleve, what do you think? Do you wish he was still here or are you glad he's gone?

J

[kingseanjohn]

14 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

Now that he has been gone a year and looking at what he has done in the land of Cleve, what do you think? Do you wish he was still here or are you glad he's gone?

J

Veach hasn't done a single thing to impress me yet. The upcoming draft is huge for him.

[Jakuvious]

2 hours ago, onejayhawk said:

Now that he has been gone a year and looking at what he has done in the land of Cleve, what do you think? Do you wish he was still here or are you glad he's gone?

J

Just is out on Veach but I still think the right thing was done. Dorsey was great at talent acquisition. Coaching staff and players. Makes him an excellent man to lead a turnarounds like what Cleveland is trying for now and like what we did in 2013. But it wasn't until 2016 or 2017 until we started seeing the cap ramifications of how he structured contracts and extended players. So what he's doing in Cleveland isn't going to change my mind unless 5 years down the road they're as talented as we wound up but without the cap hell.

[MWil23]

Speaking as a Browns fan, there's a reason we kept Paul DePodesta on staff as one of the best numbers guys in the history of professional sports. I think that the blending of his background with Dorsey's knack for talent evaluation (and hopefully staff as well) should help remedy the salary cap issues that he got you all into. As you said, time will tell.

[Chiefer]

Really like Dorseys moves in Cleveland so far. Doing great things there for that franchise and it's fans. It's really nice to see, now can they pool all that talent together and create a team? With a franchise QB it should be much easier to do so, it all hinges on Kitchens really.

Veach has had one season, no first time GM has looked great after one season with no first round pick.

Yeah I don't like his initial moves but I didn't like Dorseys either. Very interested to see how he looks in year 2.

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Chiefer

[TedLavie]

11 hours ago, Chiefer said:

Veach has had one season, no first time GM has looked great after one season with no first round pick.

Let's be honest, it's not just the draft. Free agency last year was a disaster.

 

I think if Dorsey lone weakness was contract structuration, you could have hired someone to help him out. He fielded some of the most talented squads in the NFL and had a knack to build depth too. I'm really liked him and was shocked when he was let go. Still am.

[Chiefer]

9 hours ago, TedLavie said:

Let's be honest, it's not just the draft. Free agency last year was a disaster.

 

I think if Dorsey lone weakness was contract structuration, you could have hired someone to help him out. He fielded some of the most talented squads in the NFL and had a knack to build depth too. I'm really liked him and was shocked when he was let go. Still am.

No first time GM has looked great after one season with no 1st round pick. He obviously overcompensated that with those FA deals, this year looks a lot better on that front

I think he got fired because he did things without letting Reid know. He wanted to be the top dog, and he got it. He found us some great talent on offense for sure. I think he's a bit overrated but he did so a good job while he was with us and made that trade for Mahomes

[kingseanjohn]

19 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

He obviously overcompensated that with those FA deals, this year looks a lot better on that front

In what way? He made Mathieu the highest paid safety in the league (tied with Collins) and Okafor is being overpaid for his historical value, (last year was first year playing a full 16 games and got 36 tackles and 4 sacks). He's overpaying for apparent needs.

Also a fun note, we currently have 34 guys set to become free agents next offseason. I guess we should have some comp picks to look forward to.

[Chiefer]

15 minutes ago, kingseanjohn said:

In what way? He made Mathieu the highest paid safety in the league (tied with Collins) and Okafor is being overpaid for his historical value, (last year was first year playing a full 16 games and got 36 tackles and 4 sacks). He's overpaying for apparent needs.

Also a fun note, we currently have 34 guys set to become free agents next offseason. I guess we should have some comp picks to look forward to.

We get out of the Honey Badger contract after two years he's only guaranteed 24 mill. 12 mill a year is pretty reasonable for a difference maker like the Badger.

Okafor is again realistically another 2 year contract with 11 mill in guarantees. Is that an ovepray for a solid DE? I think that's great value honestly.

that last part is pretty brutal, well have to see what more that Veach has in store this offseason. The re-signing game is always tricky, Hill and Jones are at the top of that list.

[RedGold]

Too early to call on both.  Love Dorsey and I think a lot of the cap issues came from Clark stepping in when Houston and Berry’s contracts weren’t getting done in a timely fashion, but he did like paying role players too much.

I didn’t like how Veach handled the draft/FA last year, but am loving his offseason.  Has yet to be seen how he maneuvers the cap, but he is bringing in the right guys this year.   Looking forward to the draft and hoping he stays patient.

[Jakuvious]

On 4/10/2019 at 12:50 PM, kingseanjohn said:

In what way? He made Mathieu the highest paid safety in the league (tied with Collins) and Okafor is being overpaid for his historical value, (last year was first year playing a full 16 games and got 36 tackles and 4 sacks). He's overpaying for apparent needs.

Also a fun note, we currently have 34 guys set to become free agents next offseason. I guess we should have some comp picks to look forward to.

It's the offseason. We have 34 guys set to become free agents because we have 70+ guys on roster right now. 23 of those are young back end of the roster guys who will be restricted free agents if they make the roster this year. The remaining include our backup FB, our backup QBs, the one year deals we gave out this year (Carlos Hyde, Sherman, Brashaud Breeland, Blake Bell, etc.) We have like 3 free agents that matter next year, in Hill, Jones, and Fuller. And they've already started talking to two of them about extensions. And we'll have $80M in cap space to make those moves happen. So...calm down.

Also, if we're going to complain about Alex Okafor's contract in a thread comparing Dorsey and Veach, Okafor's contract is basically identical to what Dorsey gave Bailey. In both cases, a mid-level starter for mid-level money. Okafor isn't a sack artist, but he's also a better run defender than Bailey was. Or damn near anyone on our roster was, save for Houston.

[valkrei]

I think Dorsey and Veach are great at their jobs. Dorsey might have over paid at times though but sometimes your hands are tied and you do what you gotta do.

[onejayhawk]

 

 

 

2

On 4/10/2019 at 2:22 AM, TedLavie said:

Let's be honest, it's not just the draft. Free agency last year was a disaster.

 think if Dorsey lone weakness was contract structuration, you could have hired someone to help him out. He fielded some of the most talented squads in the NFL and had a knack to build depth too. I'm really liked him and was shocked when he was let go. Still am.

If we are being honest, this is BS. Given that we had no 1st round selection, it was a solid draft. Free agency kept something like an OL in front of Mahomes. I've seen better but both the draft and free agency were passing grade. As has been said, few GMs look their best after one year. If they do, that's a problem.

J

 

[kingseanjohn]

3 hours ago, onejayhawk said:

If we are being honest, this is BS. Given that we had no 1st round selection, it was a solid draft. Free agency kept something like an OL in front of Mahomes. I've seen better but both the draft and free agency were passing grade. As has been said, few GMs look their best after one year. If they do, that's a problem.

J

 

The issue for me wasn't not having a first round pick. It was trading up for bad players to select a specific position that had few, if any remaining talent left.

The Smith trade was always going to happen with Dorsey or Veach. That's why Mahomes was drafted the year before, it was always going to happen.

Moving up for Speaks was an absolutely horrible move. It was a pure reach based on perceived need while there was (or should have been) players rated higher still available. I won't hate moving up for Nnadi, although I wonder how well he will do in the switch to a 4-3. Giving up two 6ths for McKenzie is TBD. But since he was kept on the active roster all year, I'll assume that coaches see potential starter or something in him.

This draft is going to be HUGE for Veach.

[onejayhawk]

But we didn't trade up for bad players. Sparks, since you mention him in particular, was a solid pick. It was excellent value where the got him, not a reach, and still solid value factoring the extras. The mid rounds went well. Nnadi is still a likely starter as the undertackle. Do'D is a ST Ace and may play a lot of WLB. Watts was looking solid til the injury. Tremon Smith was invaluable as a return man. McKenzie is a project but he's on the roster, not the PS. This was a good, solid draft. No big stars, but value for the slot down the line. 

Sparks should be at least as good in the 4-3, which is much closer to his college scheme. TK may show something, maybe short yardage. So far he looks like Hulk and plays like Banner.

J