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Calvin Johnson is a first ballot hofer; change my mind

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2 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

How do you have +131 upvotes/electronic footballs? Every single one of your takes stinks.

You might want to actually form a counterargument if you are going to spew crap like this. 

Quote

Calvin Johnson will not go in First Ballot in a world where TO didn't. 

 

Exactly!!

Edited by C0LTSFAN4L1F3

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40 minutes ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

You might want to actually form a counterargument if you are going to spew crap like this. 

Calvin Johnson was the most dominant and scary WR in the NFL for at least 7 years. That's HOF-worthy. 1st Ballot.

 

It's ridiculous that TO didn't get into the HOF right away, but there were other reasons for that methinks. He also wasn't the undisputed best WR of his era like Calvin was.

 

Good enough?

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Johnson’s peak is enough to get him in but I feel like you need to have a total body of work to be a first ballot. Shouldn’t take long for him to get in though.

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10 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Calvin Johnson was the most dominant and scary WR in the NFL for at least 7 years. That's HOF-worthy. 1st Ballot.

How exactly has a short yet dominant career worked out for Sterling Sharpe?

Does being exceptional for 7 years constitute being better than: Cris Carter, Terrel Owens, Andre Reed, Marvin Harrison, Tim Brown and Art Monk? All of which didn't get in 1st ballot?

Spoiler: the answer is no 

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For reference, these are some names in 2021 that Megatron will have to contend against

Peyton Manning, Charles Woodson, and Jared Allen. All those 3 deserve a spot before him especially Manning and Woodson.

Edited by Malik

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1 hour ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

How has that worked out for Sterling Sharpe? There's players with better careers who have had to wait. 

It isn't the same.  When was Sterling Sharpe considered the best player at his position for three years in a row?  Sharpe never had the reputation of being the most dangerous WR in the league (something that stayed with Johnson even in 2015) because he was always playing with someone else who was better.  Right or wrong, that makes the difference.  That's why I said it isn't about just numbers.  Its about a lot more than that.  Or else why not put someone like Brandon Marshall in the HOF (not suggesting he's on Sharpe's level, but he's got HOF numbers and yet I seriously doubt he makes it)?

Now maybe you disagree with that logic, fair enough.  But its why Calvin Johnson is going to have a much easier time getting into the Hall of Fame than Sharpe.

Personally, I disagree with the "better players had to wait, so he should too"  logic.  I don't see why it matters.  The players voted in should be the players who are the most worthy in whatever selection class they are in.  There shouldn't be some rule that some players have to wait and others don't.  If Calvin Johnson isn't the most worthy in the selection process, fair enough.  But I don't think he should wait just because someone else did.  At the end of the day, he's a clear-cut Hall of Famer and that is all that should matter.  

 

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35 minutes ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

How exactly has a short yet dominant career worked out for Sterling Sharpe?

Does being exceptional for 7 years constitute being better than: Cris Carter, Terrel Owens, Andre Reed, Marvin Harrison, Tim Brown and Art Monk? All of which didn't get in 1st ballot?

Spoiler: the answer is no 

None of those guys except Owens, and MAYBE Harrison (considering he was playing against Moss, Owens, Smitty, etc.), were considered the best wide receiver in the NFL at any point.  Much less have a dominant three year stretch where they are unanimously considered the best WR in football without anyone coming close.  I mean do you honestly rank Monk and Reed over Johnson in an all-time scale?  If so, you are putting far too much into longevity and ignoring the fact that Johnson, at his peak, was considered the man when he was playing.

And we can't act like that doesn't make a difference.  I guarantee you if Brees was playing 10 years from now and his competition wasn't Manning (arguably the GOAT), Brady (arguably the GOAT), and Rodgers (who many say is the best pure QB they have ever seen), Brees would be seen in an even better light than he is now if he could have went as being unquestionably the best at his position for a long period of time.

But ultimately, why does it matter if Carter had to wait?  Just because they had to wait doesn't mean Johnson should.  And it implies them waiting was the right decision in the first place.  Owens and Harrison absolutely were good enough to go 1st ballot.

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Megatron is a first-ballot-HOF-talent, but doesn’t have a first-ballot-HOF-resume IMO.

He has as high a peak and as dominant a prime as maybe any receiver to have ever played, but to be first ballot, you need to have it all. Obviously he was as talented as anyone. But the numbers/longevity isn’t there to be thrown in with the very best from a resume standpoint. 

Edited by Yin-Yang

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It can sometimes just come down to good timing.

For someone like Calvin Johnson, his chances of being a first ballot choice can be influenced by the strength of the other first-time candidates on the ballot. 

He’ll be eligible in 2021, the same year as Peyton Manning and Charles Woodson. That will leave only three available slots among the other 13 modern era candidates. Now had Johnson been eligible next year, which is a much weaker class for first time candidates, then his chances would look a lot better. 

 

Edited by Boknows34

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One of the best to ever play the game, and we're discussing if he's worthy?

Damn right he is!

 

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9 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Brown wouldn't be for the same reason T.O. wasn't a first ballot, too much drama. Calvin didn't really have that and that means you just base it on their play and I think that will make him first ballot. All of the crazy stuff is great for recognition but I think it hurts players, receivers specifically, when it comes time to get the media's vote for the HOF.

It doesn’t have anything to do with drama. It’s because the media loved Johnson and pitied Detroit so they spent the first five years of his career waiting for him to break out so they could declare him the best. The same reason why Johnson could get All Pro selection while being 9th in the league in receiving or make the Pro Bowl while being 9th in his conference in receiving or why it’s been largely forgotten that Johnson wasn’t elite until a three year stretch between 11-13. 

So now anyone with a memory is stuck listening to people who think Johnson walked into the league and established himself as the best receiver at the start of his career and must have dominated like no one else has. 

We also must all forget that Stafford did better without him and he never led an elite passing game or offense.

Edited by patriotsheatyan

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I'm struggling to think of 3 WRs that I would have on my team instead of Calvin Johnson. Rice, Moss...? I guess maybe Antonio Brown. This is like the Gronk vs Gonzalez debate. Wouldn't a CB choose to line up across just about any other WR than Calvin Johnson?

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14 hours ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

Okay great. Other players were consistently productive for a longer period of time, making them more valuable as a player overall in their career. Again, 44nd, 30th and 22nd in rec, yards, and touchdowns respectively is not 1st ballot HoF worthy when there's many other players who have been waiting. 

Of all the players who fit into this category, who among them was better than Calvin Johnson?

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1 hour ago, freak_of_nature said:

I'm struggling to think of 3 WRs that I would have on my team instead of Calvin Johnson. Rice, Moss...? I guess maybe Antonio Brown. 

Guys I'd CONSIDER as my 3rd guy:

*T.O.

*Cris Carter

*Larry Fitzgerald

*Megatron

From there, I think that you have a secondary tier of guys like:

Marvin Harrison, Steve Largent, Steve Smith, Isaac Bruce, Tim Brown, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, and Torry Holt (he's become criminally underrated)

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10 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Calvin Johnson was the most dominant and scary WR in the NFL for at least 7 years. That's HOF-worthy. 1st Ballot.

 

It's ridiculous that TO didn't get into the HOF right away, but there were other reasons for that methinks. He also wasn't the undisputed best WR of his era like Calvin was.

 

Good enough?

SEVEN? SEVEN? He definitely was not between 08-10 Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson were above him pretty definitely. Julio Jones and Antonio Brown were above him in his last two for 14-15 as well.

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