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Kiwibrown

Calvin Johnson is a first ballot hofer; change my mind

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Calvin's prime is so much higher than Brown and Carters, to a lesser extent Larry's also. 

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24 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

Calvin's prime is so much higher than Brown and Carters, to a lesser extent Larry's also. 

Exactly. Calvin Johnson was a freaking nightmare. He dominated despite constant double and triple coverage.

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2 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Exactly. Calvin Johnson was a freaking nightmare. He dominated despite constant double and triple coverage.

Well it also didn’t hurt that he was being force fed the ball and had over 200 targets a season.  I think a lot of guys could have produced similar numbers under those circumstances

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1 minute ago, footbull3196 said:

Well it also didn’t hurt that he was being force fed the ball and had over 200 targets a season.  I think a lot of guys could have produced similar numbers under those circumstances

He had 200 targets once and it was the season with his highest catch percentage. 

If anything they should of thrown at him more hy that logic.

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Two main reasons, already stated here:

1) Being a first-ballot HoFer at the WR position is very, very rare

2) Longevity matters, and Johnson didn't have enough of it

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2 hours ago, scar988 said:

I don't get how Julio Jones isn't on that list.

Now that you brought him up, Scar, it wouldn't surprise me if he does end up on lists like that before he is done.  I don't get to see too many Falcons games, so I wasn't even thinking about Julio.  For some reason, I thought he had only been in the league for about 4-5 years.  The time sure does pass quickly.  He undoubtedly has HOF caliber talent, and a quick look at his career numbers made me see that he has the stats to back it up.  It will be interesting to see how people compare him to Calvin Johnson when his career is over.  If he plays a few more years, he could very well reach or even surpass Megatron in a number of areas.  Good call on your part.  Thanks for bringing him up.

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1 hour ago, footbull3196 said:

Well it also didn’t hurt that he was being force fed the ball and had over 200 targets a season.  I think a lot of guys could have produced similar numbers under those circumstances

Highly doubt it.

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2 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

Calvin's prime is so much higher than Brown and Carters, to a lesser extent Larry's also. 

How does his career stats match up to Tim Brown and Cris Carter?

Calvin Johnson barely has more receiving yards than Muhsin Muhammad.

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9 hours ago, showtime said:

How does his career stats match up to Tim Brown and Cris Carter?

Calvin Johnson barely has more receiving yards than Muhsin Muhammad.

........ in like 70 less games. 

 

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On play/stats alone, probably not.

But add his nickname that everyone knew and the fact he had a rule change named after him? 

I'd say added together more likely than not. 

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13 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

Now that you brought him up, Scar, it wouldn't surprise me if he does end up on lists like that before he is done.  I don't get to see too many Falcons games, so I wasn't even thinking about Julio.  For some reason, I thought he had only been in the league for about 4-5 years.  The time sure does pass quickly.  He undoubtedly has HOF caliber talent, and a quick look at his career numbers made me see that he has the stats to back it up.  It will be interesting to see how people compare him to Calvin Johnson when his career is over.  If he plays a few more years, he could very well reach or even surpass Megatron in a number of areas.  Good call on your part.  Thanks for bringing him up.

Julio Jones through 8 years: 698 catches, 10,731 yards, 51 TDs

Calvin Johnson through 8 years: 643 catches, 10,405 yards, 74 TDs

 

Calvin never played with guys on the caliber of Michael Turner, Devonta Freeman, Tevin Coleman, Roddy White or Tony Gonzalez vulturing his TDs either.

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The two most overrated concepts in football are "double coverage" and "targets."

1. Everybody gets "double covered." That's what the safeties are for. And they're double covered because of the shells and the route the receiver ends up running, not because teams are going, "where's this scary receiver?! We've gots to double him!" It's just a meaningless talking point. While you're busy claiming that your team's #1 receiver needs a quality complimentary receiver in order to produce and "prevent double coverage" (despite the fact that this is not how it works, and the fact that it has never been true for a single receiver in the history of the league that he needed a quality receiver opposite him to produce), another team's #1 receiver just got open because he was running a drag. 

2. The "targets" stat is a modern invention where they try to figure out whose general direction a pass was thrown in. Having another 50 balls that sailed 5 yards out of bounds or right to the safety doesn't mean a receiver got anything out of that. The thing you should look at is how many pass attempts (or pass attempts + sacks) in general the receiver was on the field for. Of course, that can work both ways as far as advantage vs. disadvantage. Sure, the receiver who played every passing snap for an offense that threw it 700 times had way more opportunities than a receiver who played on a team that only threw it 500 times, but the run-heavy teams are more effective on play action, which tends to open up the downfield passing. 

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10 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said:

The two most overrated concepts in football are "double coverage" and "targets."

1. Everybody gets "double covered." That's what the safeties are for. And they're double covered because of the shells and the route the receiver ends up running, not because teams are going, "where's this scary receiver?! We've gots to double him!" It's just a meaningless talking point. While you're busy claiming that your team's #1 receiver needs a quality complimentary receiver in order to produce and "prevent double coverage" (despite the fact that this is not how it works, and the fact that it has never been true for a single receiver in the history of the league that he needed a quality receiver opposite him to produce), another team's #1 receiver just got open because he was running a drag. 

2. The "targets" stat is a modern invention where they try to figure out whose general direction a pass was thrown in. Having another 50 balls that sailed 5 yards out of bounds or right to the safety doesn't mean a receiver got anything out of that. The thing you should look at is how many pass attempts (or pass attempts + sacks) in general the receiver was on the field for. Of course, that can work both ways as far as advantage vs. disadvantage. Sure, the receiver who played every passing snap for an offense that threw it 700 times had way more opportunities than a receiver who played on a team that only threw it 500 times, but the run-heavy teams are more effective on play action, which tends to open up the downfield passing. 

cj3.jpg

eagles8.gif

AGS121812-1.jpg

so ..... everybody gets that coverage? 

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On 4/10/2019 at 5:59 PM, footbull3196 said:

Well it also didn’t hurt that he was being force fed the ball and had over 200 targets a season.  I think a lot of guys could have produced similar numbers under those circumstances

So now youre docking him for being too good?

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On 4/10/2019 at 8:59 PM, footbull3196 said:

Well it also didn’t hurt that he was being force fed the ball and had over 200 targets a season.  I think a lot of guys could have produced similar numbers under those circumstances

You should probably look up the rates at which others were targeted. You’d walk away pretty surprised. 

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