I'm trying to understand why we are still mocking edge rushers.

[VegasDan]

2 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

I was not comping Burns to Miller. I was saying . . . I was noting that finesse rushers, particularly very athletic ones, typically are the best at EDGE.

I know you weren't comping Burns/Miller. Nor was the poster I was responding too. Just as I wasnt comping Burns/Reynolds.

 

I do see a potential issue in semantics. What do you mean by EDGE? To me, an Edge is either a DE in a 4-3 or a OLB in a 3-4. 

 

[JaireAlex]

30 minutes ago, fattlipp said:

Is Burns The Relentless One part 2, many on this board loved him too

Floirida State, check

Pass Rush specialist, check

I'm looking at the Football's Future write up for prospect Jamal Reynolds. It is the same enthusiasm as for Burns....to a tee. 

 

Ron Wolf's retiring present to GB. You know it has been 18 years. Maybe it is time for Reynold's 2.0

[rcon14]

7 minutes ago, VegasDan said:

I know you weren't comping Burns/Miller. Nor was the poster I was responding too. Just as I wasnt comping Burns/Reynolds.

 

I do see a potential issue in semantics. What do you mean by EDGE? To me, an Edge is either a DE in a 4-3 or a OLB in a 3-4. 

 

yes that is what an EDGE is

[Fl0nkerton]

1 minute ago, JaireAlex said:

I'm looking at the Football's Future write up for prospect Jamal Reynolds. It is the same enthusiasm as for Burns....to a tee. 

 

Ron Wolf's retiring present to GB. You know it has been 18 years. Maybe it is time for Reynold's 2.0

lol was FF really around in 2001?

[rcon14]

6 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

I'm looking at the Football's Future write up for prospect Jamal Reynolds. It is the same enthusiasm as for Burns....to a tee. 

 

Ron Wolf's retiring present to GB. You know it has been 18 years. Maybe it is time for Reynold's 2.0

If you look at every pass rusher like Jamal Reynolds, you'll never take a finesse rusher ever and you'll miss out on good players. I'm sorry you got your heart broken back in the early 00s but don't let a good player go (for whom we have much more athletic data on than we did for Reynolds) because something happened with a different player and person eighteen years ago. It's ridiculous.

Don't eliminate a player because of their general style. You don't just toss out strong armed QBs cuz Jamarcus Russell sucked. You don't toss our speed WRs because Darious Heyward-Bey busted.

And ALSO, Jamal Reynolds career was basically ended due to knee problems.

If Burns played for Penn State no one would be making this comp.

[JaireAlex]

1 minute ago, Fl0nkerton said:

lol was FF really around in 2001?

Haha.

 

I found Football's Future quoted in an article on prospect Reynolds

 

I am started to get worried. My old spasmatic twitch is back.

[Fl0nkerton]

5 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Haha.

 

I found Football's Future quoted in an article on prospect Reynolds

 

I am started to get worried. My old spasmatic twitch is back.

My earliest FF memory is BananasrUSC claiming Keef Rivers was the second coming of Lawrence Taylor, playboy.

[VegasDan]

15 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

yes that is what an EDGE is

Not the definition everyone uses. Last page somebody (not you) rips on a poster for saying it's a strong draft for defensive line. Says its mediocre. Then goes on to say it's great for edge. We are Packer fans so we think in terms of OLB for edge.

[rcon14]

Just now, VegasDan said:

Not the definition everyone uses. Last page somebody (not you) rips on a poster for saying it's a strong draft for defensive line. Says its mediocre. Then goes on to say it's great for edge. We are Packer fans so we think in terms of OLB for edge.

EDGE: Player that plays 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB

DL: Player that plays 5T through NT

Pretty standard verbiage at this point that an EDGE position is not considered "DL" when discussing draft prospects.

[JaireAlex]

8 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

If you look at every pass rusher like Jamal Reynolds, you'll never take a finesse rusher ever and you'll miss out on good players. I'm sorry you got your heart broken back in the early 00s but don't let a good player go (for whom we have much more athletic data on than we did for Reynolds) because something happened with a different player and person eighteen years ago. It's ridiculous.

Don't eliminate a player because of their general style. You don't just toss out strong armed QBs cuz Jamarcus Russell sucked. You don't toss our speed WRs because Darious Heyward-Bey busted.

And ALSO, Jamal Reynolds career was basically ended due to knee problems.

If Burns played for Penn State no one would be making this comp.

I'm totally fine with that. The bust rate is way too high for me. I had totally forgotten about Reynolds except as a vague name. 

Those guys just scare me and I'm perpetually puzzled they keep getting picked high. This team doesn't need more finesse. And as to Clay, he had that great first step that really set him apart. Even the successes always have limitations as well, even CMIII who had five really good years only.

"No one make that comp? He also was a top ten GB pick. The Florida State connection just makes it uncanny -- like this can't possibly be happening again territory. The reporter on the story about Reynolds just recalled laughing at the sight of the diminutive Reynolds first showing up at camp. Good thing Burns packed on that playing weight to make him appear as big as Reynolds

[VegasDan]

2 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

EDGE: Player that plays 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB

DL: Player that plays 5T through NT

Pretty standard verbiage at this point that an EDGE position is not considered "DL" when discussing draft prospects.

Okay. I will go with that. I see iDL used for that, iOL for OG/OC, iLB or even OBLB. Getting more complicated every year.

[rcon14]

2 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

I'm totally fine with that. The bust rate is way too high for me. I had totally forgotten about Reynolds except as a vague name. 

Those guys just scare me and I'm perpetually puzzled they keep getting picked high. This team doesn't need more finesse. And as to Clay, he had that great first step that really set him apart. Even the successes always have limitations as well, even CMIII who had five really good years only.

"No one make that comp? He also was a top ten GB pick. The Florida State connection just makes it uncanny -- like this can't possibly be happening again territory. The reporter on the story about Reynolds just recalled laughing at the sight of the diminutive Reynolds first showing up at camp. Good thing Burns packed on that playing weight to make him appear as big as Reynolds

We're just at an impasse here and there's no point to continue the discussion. You don't like smaller athletic EDGE guys and I do. Nothing I say will change your mind and you haven't provided anything to change mine.

[Hands]

5 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

You pick the best player, and the best player is probably gonna be EDGE.

What if one of the Smiths sucks? 
What if one of the Smiths gets hurt?
What if one of the Smiths is primarily interior pass rush on most downs?
What if you pass on the next Von Miller for the next Jason Witten? 

EDGE/DL and CB are the two positions you really can't draft too many of. 

 

Bingo, the winner! Most talented draft in years for edge and Dline. If you go BPA, it will probably be an edge or Dline guy. Also if a Smith gets hurt, I know it could never happen in Green Bay, you have acceptable depth.

[JaireAlex]

1 minute ago, rcon14 said:

We're just at an impasse here and there's no point to continue the discussion. You don't like smaller athletic EDGE guys and I do. Nothing I say will change your mind and you haven't provided anything to change mine.

Agreed. But Reynolds and Mingo are the price some FOs aren't willing to pay. Just a difference in draft philosophy I can't ever change my mind on. I do like a guy like Banogu later but he's a bit bigger and can put some weight on, kinda starting where Burns is maxed. It's the kind of pick I can handle in later rounds on upside as opposed to "finished products" in the top ten, what I see as high end projects that need too much work.

 

Peace

[JBURGE]

4 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Agreed. But Reynolds and Mingo are the price some FOs aren't willing to pay. Just a difference in draft philosophy I can't ever change my mind on. I do like a guy like Banogu later but he's a bit bigger and can put some weight on, kinda starting where Burns is maxed. It's the kind of pick I can handle in later rounds on upside as opposed to "finished products" in the top ten, what I see as high end projects that need too much work.

 

Peace

If Burns was more refined as a pass rusher, as in if he had a solid counter move for his speed rush, would you feel differently? Or is the size too much to overcome?