I'm trying to understand why we are still mocking edge rushers.

[cannondale]

If Burns were more accomplished, he'd go top 3. No player comes with a warranty. The further down the board you go, the more projecting you have to do

[JaireAlex]

2 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

If Burns was more refined as a pass rusher, as in if he had a solid counter move for his speed rush, would you feel differently? Or is the size too much to overcome?

Size really does matter. CMIII had that first step. That makes a difference. Counter moves would definitely help. I could live with 30, but 12. Man, that's a lot. That high, you better hit, or move back and hit on a lesser position. There are plenty of prospects that will hit and fit in round one.

Crap shoots are for day 3, round 3 earliest......and that really does seem to be how GB plays this thing. They rarely miss, except on fit more than anything. Even Perry I thought was decent given that draft, and they wanted Reyes in the 2nd. Aside from injury and that second contract Perry was solid, and the contract was after his big year and injuries took a toll -- he was a good guy in the locker room, not sure it was his fault really.

[JBURGE]

2 minutes ago, cannondale said:

If Burns were more accomplished, he'd go top 3. No player comes with a warranty. The further down the board you go, the more projecting you have to do

Not necessarily. He could still be EDGE3 or 4 on the board, and needs will push one of them down. 

[VegasDan]

I doubt the Packers are considering Burns. He is nothing like either Smith we signed as FAs. I think we can assume we would sign only FAs who fit a profile of what we want them to do. Therefore I believe we are not looking for a small quick guy for the position. Je just doesnt fit our system. I would say we draft Clelin Ferrel before Burns. Man, that would be funny to see the meltdown on some of the armchair GMs.

Anyway, I think Burns goes to 20. If the Hawks pass on him he may be there at 30. Personally, I would consider him at that point. Depends on who else is available.

 

[Pilprin]

8 hours ago, Fl0nkerton said:

at 12???

no...picks 12, 30, and 44

 

Sorry I wasn't very clear on that.

[Fl0nkerton]

1 minute ago, Pilprin said:

no...picks 12, 30, and 44

Gotcha. I'm pickin' up what you're throwin' down.

[Cakeshoppe]

3 minutes ago, VegasDan said:

I doubt the Packers are considering Burns. He is nothing like either Smith we signed as FAs. I think we can assume we would sign only FAs who fit a profile of what we want them to do. Therefore I believe we are not looking for a small quick guy for the position. Je just doesnt fit our system. I would say we draft Clelin Ferrel before Burns. Man, that would be funny to see the meltdown on some of the armchair GMs.

Anyway, I think Burns goes to 20. If the Hawks pass on him he may be there at 30. Personally, I would consider him at that point. Depends on who else is available.

 

For what it's worth, GB has shows significant interest in Sweat, who has a very similar size/athletic profile. If size is enough to exclude Burns as a bad system fit, one would think it would exclude Sweat as well.

[cannondale]

33 minutes ago, VegasDan said:

I doubt the Packers are considering Burns. He is nothing like either Smith we signed as FAs. I think we can assume we would sign only FAs who fit a profile of what we want them to do. Therefore I believe we are not looking for a small quick guy for the position. Je just doesnt fit our system. I would say we draft Clelin Ferrel before Burns. Man, that would be funny to see the meltdown on some of the armchair GMs.

Anyway, I think Burns goes to 20. If the Hawks pass on him he may be there at 30. Personally, I would consider him at that point. Depends on who else is available.

 

Maybe, but I'd have to hear that from Pettine or Gute first. Dynamic speed guys just don't hit the market. I think that Burns would compliment the Smiths quite well. Different OT's have different strengths and weaknesses. Having a diverse arsenal is not a bad thing. Apparently we are looking at a dwarf WR after drafting a bunch of guys 6'-3". 

[Cadmus]

44 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Size really does matter. CMIII had that first step. That makes a difference. Counter moves would definitely help. I could live with 30, but 12. Man, that's a lot. That high, you better hit, or move back and hit on a lesser position. There are plenty of prospects that will hit and fit in round one.

Crap shoots are for day 3, round 3 earliest......and that really does seem to be how GB plays this thing. They rarely miss, except on fit more than anything. Even Perry I thought was decent given that draft, and they wanted Reyes in the 2nd. Aside from injury and that second contract Perry was solid, and the contract was after his big year and injuries took a toll -- he was a good guy in the locker room, not sure it was his fault really.

Again, what are you talking about? 

We all realize he played light last season, but he was 20 years old and he won't turn 22 until months after his rookie season. 

Burns possesses a 6051 249 lbs frame with 34" arms and 10" hands... nothing about that frame (combined with his youth) suggests that he shouldn't be able to play at 255-265 once he fully grows into that body. He's not sub-6020, he doesn't have raptor arms--there's literally nothing to suggest he can't play in the NFL at 255+ lbs. 

Then you want to talk about first step?

 

 

[Leader]

13 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Maybe, but I'd have to hear that from Pettine or Gute first. I think that Burns would compliment the Smiths quite well. Different OT's have different strengths and weaknesses. Having a diverse arsenal is not a bad thing. Apparently we are looking at a dwarf WR after drafting a bunch of guys 6'-3". 

Exactly right. Is he the only guy? No. Are there others in Round 1? Yes. Are there others down the line a bit? Perhaps so. But I'd rather dedicate a high pick to this position and think Burns has all the necessaries to be a player. Combined with Clark/Daniels/Z (inside) and Preston (opposite EDGE) - he can give us the speed rush we've been lacking - plus I think he'd be better in space / dropping back than many of the others. It would make for a good mix of power & speed.

GB has been dying for a dominant pass rush for quite a few years. This is a good class for EDGE players and we're drafting high. Lets strike while the iron is hot.   

[JaireAlex]

14 minutes ago, Cadmus said:

Again, what are you talking about? 

We all realize he played light last season, but he was 20 years old and he won't turn 22 until months after his rookie season. 

Burns possesses a 6051 249 lbs frame with 34" arms and 10" hands... nothing about that frame (combined with his youth) suggests that he shouldn't be able to play at 255-265 once he fully grows into that body. He's not sub-6020, he doesn't have raptor arms--there's literally nothing to suggest he can't play in the NFL at 255+ lbs. 

Then you want to talk about first step?

 

 

Alternative universe. "Nothing to suggest that.?" I mean seriously, many question that late weight. Your posts are all hyperbole.

Burns packed on weight just like Polite. Most have Burns at 20 or lower and before the combine even lower. He is not widely regarded as top ten. Dismissing wide criticism and comparing  him to Mack or Von Miller do  not make your argument  stronger. He's Reynolds 2.0 for me.

CMIII had a 1.47 ten yard split. That was elite. Not sure anyone beat that. At least Mack and Miller had power to go with that. But I never heard anyone compare him to Mack or Miller. I would be fine with Mack or Miller there. I just wasn't aware of that comp to be honest. If that's the case, I'm all aboard.

And Landry went at a more reasonable spot a whole round later almost.

[VegasDan]

36 minutes ago, Cakeshoppe said:

For what it's worth, GB has shows significant interest in Sweat, who has a very similar size/athletic profile. If size is enough to exclude Burns as a bad system fit, one would think it would exclude Sweat as well.

Sweat played last season 30 lbs heavier than Burns. Burns put on 20 lbs for the combine. Can he keep it on during the rigors of an NFL season? How much will he lose? 5 lbs okay. 20 lbs? Not so good.  Why didnt he add the weight in college? He had to know his draft stock was affected. He had to know it would help him as a player.

 

There are questions here. I'm only making a guess as all of you are.

22 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Maybe, but I'd have to hear that from Pettine or Gute first. Dynamic speed guys just don't hit the market. I think that Burns would compliment the Smiths quite well. Different OT's have different strengths and weaknesses. Having a diverse arsenal is not a bad thing. Apparently we are looking at a dwarf WR after drafting a bunch of guys 6'-3". 

I would love to hear from them as well, but they ain't talking. We only have 1 year to go by here, so it's really anyone's guess. I'm with you on the diverse arsenal and would consider Burns at 30. But too risky IMHO at 12. And I wouldn't take a 3rd down specialist anyway. I want a 3 down player as the Packers need some help in several areas.

[rcon14]

6 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Alternative universe. "Nothing to suggest that.?" I mean seriously, many question that late weight. Your posts are all hyperbole.

Burns packed on weight just like Polite. Most have Burns at 20 or lower and before the combine even lower. He is not widely regarded as top ten. Dismissing wide criticism and comparing  him to Mack or Von Miller do  not make your argument  stronger. He's Reynolds 2.0 for me.

CMIII had a 1.47 ten yard split. That was elite. Not sure anyone beat that. At least Mack and Miller had power to go with that. But I never heard anyone compare him to Mack or Miller. I would be fine with Mack or Miller there. I just wasn't aware of that comp to be honest. If that's the case, I'm all aboard.

And Landry went at a more reasonable spot a whole round later almost.

Burns added weight and still remained an elite athlete. Polite added weight and was garbage. Don't compare the two.

[Cadmus]

1 minute ago, JaireAlex said:

Alternative universe. "Nothing to suggest that.?" I mean seriously, many question that late weight. Your posts are all hyperbole.

Burns packed on weight just like Polite. Most have him at 20 or lower and before the combine even lower. He is not widely regarded as top ten. Dusmissing wide criticism and comparing  him to Mack or Von Miller do  not make your argument  stronger. He's Reynolds 2.0 for me.

CMIII had a 1.47 ten yard split. That was elite. Not sure anyone beat that. At least Mack and Miller had power to go with that. But I never heard anyone compare him to Mack or Miller. I would be fine with Mack or Miller there. I just wasn't aware of that comp to be honest. If that's the case, I'm all aboard.

My posts are hyperbole? Has the definition of hyperbole changed? Does hyperbole mean a highly detailed and well educated response now?  

Poster 1: Deepest DL class ever 

Poster 2: Lays out the framework for his argument point by point. 

Which one sounds bombastic to everyone else? 

 

Most had him at 15-20 lbs lower before the combine? Yeah, that's because he was... no one has denied that. He played his final collegiate year around 235. Do you know who else played around 235 his final collegiate year: Clay Matthews. Many people forget that he was only 240ish during the pre-draft process. 

I'm fully aware of CM3's split becuase I've ACTUALLY been following the draft since then... and it was NEVER a 1.47 it was a 1.49. That's not the point--the point is you're attempting to knock the burst of the EDGE player with the fastest 10 yard split in the entire class. 

[rcon14]

3 minutes ago, Cadmus said:

My posts are hyperbole? Has the definition of hyperbole changed? Does hyperbole mean a highly detailed and well educated response now?  

Poster 1: Deepest DL class ever 

Poster 2: Lays out the framework for his argument point by point. 

Which one sounds bombastic to everyone else? 

 

Most had him at 15-20 lbs lower before the combine? Yeah, that's because he was... no one has denied that. He played his final collegiate year around 235. Do you know who else played around 235 his final collegiate year: Clay Matthews. Many people forget that he was only 240ish during the pre-draft process. 

I'm fully aware of CM3's split becuase I've ACTUALLY been following the draft since then... and it was NEVER a 1.47 it was a 1.49. That's not the point--the point is you're attempting to knock the burst of the EDGE player with the fastest 10 yard split in the entire class. 

And according to RAS database, Burns' 10-yard split is in the 99th percentile for all DEs.