Aaron Rodgers Appreciation Thread 4.20

[vegas492]

43 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I feel like GOAT is a fun conversation to have.  

Here's one...Brady is near the top of every GOAT list, right?

How about best quarterback?  Does that skew anything?  Does Johnny U enter in?

I only ask because of this...I've never been a huge Brady fan.  He's solid in every facet of the game.  But...he's never moved well.  He slides and buys time, yes, but he doesn't move great.  Arm isn't the strongest.  

I'm just curious if you can uncouple the GOAT conversation from the best QB conversation. 

 

28 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Brady isn't GOAT, he's been on/with a GOAT team/regime/Coach. 

Look at the points the Patriots have allowed in Brady's postseason wins and tell me 10% of NFL starting quarterbacks over the years couldn't get wins. 

Put Rodgers/Brees/Manning/ any above average QB on those teams and they're winning Super Bowls, too. 

Very much agree.  But...I think he's in the conversation as GOAT.  As much as any other QB.

I was wondering, if you took away rings (I should have said that), if he's in the conversation as GOAT QB.

I'm unsure if he is...based a lot off of what you posted.

It is just an interesting conversation to have.

[Gopher Trace]

3 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Brady isn't GOAT, he's been on/with a GOAT team/regime/Coach. 

Look at the points the Patriots have allowed in Brady's postseason wins and tell me 10% of NFL starting quarterbacks over the years couldn't get wins. 

Put Rodgers/Brees/Manning/ any above average QB on those teams and they're winning Super Bowls, too. 

Okay, sure. They weren't, though. Brady was.

Circumstances are an inextricable part of success in sports. There are plenty of guys who had all the talent in the world who will never be discussed in the same breath as the sport's greatest, many of them by no fault of their own. That's just how it goes. It's the "T" part of "GOAT." We can talk all day long about coulda/shoulda/woulda, but going off of what did happen, Brady is the most successful QB to lead an offense.

Besides, if you're going to make that your criticism of a guy, at least apply it equally/across the board. You have often touted Joe Montana. That guy was a textbook example of a "system QB" if there ever were one.

[Acrid Josher]

On 12/13/2018 at 9:44 AM, Mr. Fussnputz said:

So you just made a statement that says it's impossible to determine a GOAT. 

Not at all. Several statistician football writers have done exactly this by, for example, normalizing passer rating or ANY/A (any stat you want to approximate "QB Quality") for a year and then measuring relative distance above the mean in some way. Then look at how many years they led the league/were great and you have a decent way to approximate which QBs are most ahead of their contemporaries by the chosen metric.

It's been a few years since I've read these kinds of articles but off the top of my head I know Chase Stuart of Football Perspective had a series of great posts about his process that he updated every few years. A quick google gives this one (his fifth update from four years ago: http://www.footballperspective.com/the-greatest-qb-of-all-time-v-part-i-methodology/

[Shanedorf]

Rodgers has a couple of records in reach on Sunday

From Packerswire, AR needs:

– 33 completions to break his own record, set at 401 in 2016

– 22 attempts to break Brett Favre’s record, set at 613 in 2006

– 228 passing yards to break his own record, set at 4,643 in 2011

– 4 sacks taken to break his own record, set at 51 in 2012

[snackattack]

1 minute ago, Shanedorf said:

Rodgers has a couple of records in reach on Sunday

From Packerswire, AR needs:

– 33 completions to break his own record, set at 401 in 2016

– 22 attempts to break Brett Favre’s record, set at 613 in 2006

– 228 passing yards to break his own record, set at 4,643 in 2011

– 4 sacks taken to break his own record, set at 51 in 2012

I bet they all happen

[Shanedorf]

Two more here:

Rodgers is also in position to set the new NFL record for interception percentage in a single season. He currently has two interceptions on 592 attempts.

Rodgers already broke Tom Brady’s NFL record for most consecutive passes without an interception, finishing at 402.

[incognito_man]

he will need 3 TDs to avoid setting a career low in TDs for a full season as well. 3 would tie his mark of 28.

[Shanedorf]

17 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

he will need 3 TDs to avoid setting a career low in TDs for a full season

wrong thread 
try here:

 

[Dubz41]

On 12/14/2018 at 1:58 PM, Gopher Trace said:

Okay, sure. They weren't, though. Brady was.

Circumstances are an inextricable part of success in sports. There are plenty of guys who had all the talent in the world who will never be discussed in the same breath as the sport's greatest, many of them by no fault of their own. That's just how it goes. It's the "T" part of "GOAT." We can talk all day long about coulda/shoulda/woulda, but going off of what did happen, Brady is the most successful QB to lead an offense.

Besides, if you're going to make that your criticism of a guy, at least apply it equally/across the board. You have often touted Joe Montana. That guy was a textbook example of a "system QB" if there ever were one.

Exception to the bolded part.  Yes, I am an older homer:  Bart Starr was the most successful QB to lead an offense, He also called his own plays.

[ThatJerkDave]

On 12/14/2018 at 11:01 AM, vegas492 said:

 

Very much agree.  But...I think he's in the conversation as GOAT.  As much as any other QB.

I was wondering, if you took away rings (I should have said that), if he's in the conversation as GOAT QB.

I'm unsure if he is...based a lot off of what you posted.

It is just an interesting conversation to have.

He absolutely is.  If you take away everyone's championships, Brady still has 513 TD passes to 171 INTs.  He has thrown for over 70k yards.  He has a career passer rating of 97.  His 2007 season has to be on the short list of best seasons by a QB of all time. His 2011, 14, and 15 seasons are very impressive too.  He has led the league in TD passes 4 times, and that time has overlapped players like Favre, Manning, Brees, and Rodgers.

He sits at 4th all time in yards.  3rd all time in TDs.  Tied for 2nd best TD:INT of all time (with Kaepernick).  4th all time in passer rating.

[Leader]

11 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Rodgers has a couple of records in reach on Sunday

From Packerswire, AR needs:

– 33 completions to break his own record, set at 401 in 2016

– 22 attempts to break Brett Favre’s record, set at 613 in 2006

– 228 passing yards to break his own record, set at 4,643 in 2011

– 4 sacks taken to break his own record, set at 51 in 2012

I can see these happening.

33 completions sounds kinda high.
He could be sacked 4 times - hope not though.
 

 

[Pugger]

1 hour ago, Dubz41 said:

Exception to the bolded part.  Yes, I am an older homer:  Bart Starr was the most successful QB to lead an offense, He also called his own plays.

I'm afraid Starr gets the shaft by pundits and fans.  I think he lost only ONE playoff game in his career.  He played at time when QBs were not protected like they are today and when the league was tailored toward a passing league like it is today.  It is a shame, really.  

[JBURGE]

Don't forget the -125 throwaway's to set an NFL record

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

He absolutely is.  If you take away everyone's championships, Brady still has 513 TD passes to 171 INTs.  He has thrown for over 70k yards.  He has a career passer rating of 97.  His 2007 season has to be on the short list of best seasons by a QB of all time. His 2011, 14, and 15 seasons are very impressive too.  He has led the league in TD passes 4 times, and that time has overlapped players like Favre, Manning, Brees, and Rodgers.

He sits at 4th all time in yards.  3rd all time in TDs.  Tied for 2nd best TD:INT of all time (with Kaepernick).  4th all time in passer rating.

That is the fun part about the GOAT discussion.  How much weight do you put on rings?

And I don't know the answer to that.  Based off of your post (above), you have to include Rodgers in the conversation, rightly so.

But when you factor in rings?  It takes him down a notch or two.

Of all the all-time greats, who do you want most with 2:00 left and one timeout, needing 75 yards and a TD to win a big game?  Hard to argue against Brady and Montana there.  I'd opine that Rodgers has feet to make plays which makes him more valuable there.  But, he also looks deep too often and often neglects the little throws that keep the sticks moving and could become larger plays based on the player who catches the smaller pass.

It is just a tough, tough conversation to have.

[eyecatcher]

7 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Of all the all-time greats, who do you want most with 2:00 left and one timeout, needing 75 yards and a TD to win a big game?  Hard to argue against Brady and Montana there.  I'd opine that Rodgers has feet to make plays which makes him more valuable there.  But, he also looks deep too often and often neglects the little throws that keep the sticks moving and could become larger plays based on the player who catches the smaller pass.

I'll take Rodgers with anyone else's defense than the one that screwed Rodgers out of at far to many come from behind victories in the final minutes.