pollino14 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Too bad he's also a generational ego. If he wasn't, he might have more than one Super Bowl win. One of the most absurd statements I’ve read in awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said: He kinda is though. You spend a lot more time watching film than I do, so keep an eye on it and prove me wrong if I'm wrong, but honest question... Does Aaron or does he not avoid open receivers only to wait far too long trying to make a bigger play? That hurts our offense and helps our team get into massive holes, and I hate it. He also flat out refuses to throw to running backs. I would literally pay a hundred dollars to be able to find a gif of the play that I'm talking about, but we were trailing in it and it was late in the season. Starks was open in the middle of the field standing there waving for the ball. Rodgers pumped like 97 times and finally threw it once 97 defenders ran to the previously wide open Starks. Look at all the times a running back caught more than 4 balls a game, too. They're all games in which we got way behind in. Montgomery's big receiving game this year came against Dallas when we got way behind. Only time Rodgers throws to backs or receivers open short is when we're trailing and it's a matter of necessity. It's a problem that we were able to overcome and not even be an issue when we had prime Nelson, but it's an issue that became horrifically obvious in 2015, and it has persisted. His ego comes with his obsession with his TD/INT ratio and his QB rating. He's even admitted that he takes his QB rating too seriously. It hurts the team. I can't stand Brady, but Brady doesn't care because he knows that those cheap passes open other things up. So does Brees. Rodgers absolutely does have a gigantic ego. This is true, but I loathe Brady. I think you're attributing to ego what many would attribute to an arguably misplaced value on chunk yardage and an arguably misplaced confidence in teammates. If you're driving the bandwagon that Aaron needs to check down to RBs more frequently, then I'm minimally in the passenger seat holding the GPS. You have no more significant ally in this discussion than myself. However, I believe it's something like 83% of touchdown drives have a play of 19+ yards. Chunk yardage and big plays are hugely necessary in the NFL. Additionally this team and offense has placed more emphasis on broken play yardage than any in the NFL over the same period. Aaron has tremendous confidence in his receiving group to come back to him. Given the choice between Jordy on a comeback route and James Starks for a five yard dump off, I can see why someone would be tempted to go to Jordy. I don't think what we're looking at is mostly a concern for stats (I could see maybe small portion). I think what we're seeing is the confidence an athlete has in his own abilities (which you could argue could be labelled ego) and the confidence an athlete has in his teammates, which I don't think can be labelled as ego. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: You say that Tom Brady never beefs with Belichick in public, that's because he's too busy running a cult to try and replace the team's medical staff with his own personal trainers. That's a far worse organizational subverting sin than Rodgers grumbling about not acquiring Free Agents. Since Brady is playing really well at the age of 40 (or whatever he currently is age wise), maybe he is on to something that the NE medical staff should be listening to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Just now, pollino14 said: One of the most absurd statements I’ve read in awhile. I think you're letting your appreciation for Rodgers interfere with your ability to fairly judge whether or not my statement was absurd. I'm going to admit that I didn't fairly define ego when I called him a generational ego. I'm gonna go ahead and do that now. His ego is his biggest weakness, which is refusing to take check downs and his concern for his QB rating and yards per attempt. Now that that's defined, I'd challenge you to look at his 2014 Championship game. Running backs caught two passes in that game. One completion to Kuhn. One completion to Starks. Rodgers had two interceptions in that game. You think it might have been easier to turn four interceptions from our defense into more points if Rodgers was a little more willing to take a check down pass in order to move the ball? Because I sure do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Just now, AlexGreen#20 said: this team and offense has placed more emphasis on broken play yardage than any in the NFL over the same period. Aaron has tremendous confidence in his receiving group to come back to him. Given the choice between Jordy on a comeback route and James Starks for a five yard dump off, I can see why someone would be tempted to go to Jordy. I don't think what we're looking at is mostly a concern for stats (I could see maybe small portion). I think what we're seeing is the confidence an athlete has in his own abilities (which you could argue could be labelled ego) and the confidence an athlete has in his teammates, which I don't think can be labelled as ego. Imagine how many more broken play yardage and 20 yard plays we would have if Rodgers wasn't allergic to throwing check down passes to open those 20 yard passes up? What is ego in this sense of the word if not overconfidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollino14 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: I think you're letting your appreciation for Rodgers interfere with your ability to fairly judge whether or not my statement was absurd. I'm going to admit that I didn't fairly define ego when I called him a generational ego. I'm gonna go ahead and do that now. His ego is his biggest weakness, which is refusing to take check downs and his concern for his QB rating and yards per attempt. Now that that's defined, I'd challenge you to look at his 2014 Championship game. Running backs caught two passes in that game. One completion to Kuhn. One completion to Starks. Rodgers had two interceptions in that game. You think it might have been easier to turn four interceptions from our defense into more points if Rodgers was a little more willing to take a check down pass in order to move the ball? Because I sure do. HZ, the comment is completely ridiculous on many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 29 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Imagine how many more broken play yardage and 20 yard plays we would have if Rodgers wasn't allergic to throwing check down passes to open those 20 yard passes up? What is ego in this sense of the word if not overconfidence? Again, if you're looking for me to sit here and defend Rodgers' not checking down, you're talking to the wrong person. Maybe we're parsing words on the statement of ego. I don't think Rodgers has an issue with pride where he thinks he's too good to checkdown. I do think he looks at a given play and lets great become the enemy of good. I don't know if you would call that perfectionism? I don't want to play this game though. I hate psychoanalyzing players. I think it's something that should be reserved for radio shock jocks. You correctly identify that Rodgers has a problem with checking down. It's a flaw that he possess as a player. What's not being taken into account here is that other players, even all time greats, have flaws as well. Tom Brady doesn't have near the velocity that Rodgers does. He's not as accurate of a passer. Rodgers' (almost singular) flaw is the not checking down. It's extremely frustrating at times, but I think you're taking this one flaw and blowing it massively out of proportion. Aaron Rodgers refusal to check down isn't the reason the Packers haven't been winning super bowls and even with expensive contract in hand, Aaron Rodgers is a net positive for the Packers in terms of winning games. (There's an abstract argument to be made that Rodgers with contract is a positive for winning games but is a negative for winning super bowls. I think this though process is wrong minded but it's out there. ) How big of a net positive can be discussed, but if the conversation is Aaron Rodgers or 30m in cap space, Aaron Rodgers is the answer to that hypothetical question. The reason the Packers haven't been winning Super Bowls are in some order: Our defense has been really mediocre in the regular season, leading us to playing a lot of games in the playoffs (as opposed to earning first round byes), too many on the road. Our defense has allowed a lot of points in losses in the playoffs. Our weapons have really struggled getting open against excellent defenses. Our injury luck has been horrendous. We've been lousy drafting for a few years now. All of these reasons meld into some horrible pottery piece of bad luck, but to blame the situation on Rodgers primarily just isn't correct. Even if what you say is true and Rodgers refusal to check down is keeping the team from winning super bowls, all it means is that he's overcoming even more than what he already is which is not an insignificant amount. I'll gladly stand with you and be a Packer offense playoff truther, but you can point out that the offense is having issues and portion out blame to Rodgers, McCarthy, Thompson, and other players respectively. This isn't all on Rodgers much in the way it isn't all on Capers or Thompson. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Didn't Rodgers check down to Monty a few years ago like 10 times in a game vs the Bears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, HorizontoZenith said: His ego comes with his obsession with his TD/INT ratio and his QB rating. So he's obsessed with throwing TDs and not throwing INTs? What an ego.. Edited April 12, 2018 by Gopackgonerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Just now, Gopackgonerd said: So he's obsessed with throwing TDs and not throwing INTs? What an ego.. You don't ever watch Rodgers play and wish he'd stop being so hesitant to throw the ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: You don't ever watch Rodgers play and wish he'd stop being so hesitant to throw the ball? Sure, But I also watch Nick Perry and wish he'd use his power more. I watch Clay Matthews and wish he still had an ounce of power in his hands. I watch Randall Cobb and wish he was 4 inches taller. I watch David Bakhtiari and wish he had above average pure drive skills. I don't judge players against some hypothetically perfect player and blame them for not reaching that pinnacle of dominance. Aaron is the closest most of us will ever see to that player (There are others, Watt, Gronkowski, Julio, Yanda, Revis, Thomas, Kuechly) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 AG, you just listed a bunch of physical faults. Rodgers holding onto the ball too long and not taking check downs is a mental flaw. It's something he can improve on. Cobb can't grow two inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said: You don't ever watch Rodgers play and wish he'd stop being so hesitant to throw the ball? Sure the guy holds onto the ball too long at times. I just don't know where you're getting the ego part of it from. Do you really think he cares more about stats than winning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, Gopackgonerd said: Sure the guy holds onto the ball too long at times. I just don't know where you're getting the ego part of it from. Do you really think he cares more about stats than winning? No. I do, however, think that sometimes it keeps him from winning because he sometimes thinks he can have both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: No. I do, however, think that sometimes it keeps him from winning because he sometimes thinks he can have both. I don't believe that. When he takes care of the ball he's not thinking of his stat sheet, he's thinking he doesn't wanna turn the ball over. Its not like he's purposely not throwing the ball because he thinks it will effect his stats. Edited April 12, 2018 by Gopackgonerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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