Aaron Rodgers Appreciation Thread 4.20

[AlexGreen#20]

7 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

AG, you just listed a bunch of physical faults.  Rodgers holding onto the ball too long and not taking check downs is a mental flaw.  It's something he can improve on.  Cobb can't grow two inches. 

Perry choosing to go speed over power is a mental call. Clay could mentally choose to go back on the good PEDs, not the same thing but you get the idea. Some would make the argument that Bakhtiari's lack of drive skills is a mindset one. Certainly people with less ability than Bakhtiari have been a better run blocker than he is. 

I guess all I will say is that correcting a mental flaw is never so easy as flipping a switch. If it was, QBs wouldn't throw Ints. The QB position is like 80 percent a mental one, even Brady has his mental flaws.

You watch Brady and while you're amazed at the precision with which he makes his progressions, but it's ocassionally maddening the lack of flexibility he displays outside of those reads at times. To some extent he plays football with blinders on. QBs aren't supposed to throw dead routes, but sometimes a DB falls or there's a blown coverage. If a WR isn't supposed to be open based on his coverage read, Brady never finds that guy. 

Brady is better at going through his progressions and finding the uncovered man, and the Patriots as an organization have done a better job than the Packers in recent years at making sure there is an open man both via roster construction and playcalling. But there are times when there is no uncovered man and as a QB you have to create something. That's where Rodgers excels in comparison. 

There's also a lot to be said for having Randy Moss/Rob Gronkowski, I love what Jordy Nelson has done for this team, but he doesn't possess nearly the 1v1 ability that either of those two, nor does he exert the gravity on coverages that those guys did. 

Everybody talks about how the Packers run a boring route tree and how all of our plays require receivers to win their routes 1v1, what's typically missed in those discussions is that scheming guys open is significantly more difficult when none of your receivers are good enough to consistently demand additional focus. 

Edited April 12, 2018 by AlexGreen#20

[jontat83]

Sure sometimes I wish he would take the easier option and sometimes take what's there. But he's a playmaker also, he sometimes waits for something bigger and takes it (which he clearly has been successful at doing).

I'll be interested in two things this season:

-Philbin effect, he was a masterful in game adjuster, one could argue our in game adjustments haven't been anywhere near as solid since he left so to have him back will be interesting to watch.

- After many years of running the same scheme and seeing it get countered by the league to a degree McCarthy sounds like he and Philbin and blowing up the playbook and rebuilding it. I've been calling for more changes for years. I'll be interested to see what they have in store.

[Pugger]

11 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

I just think you don't like the fact that the world isn't fair. Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, LeBron, Jordan, Gretzky, when you're that good you can do these things and it's no big deal. Aaron works hard, he takes the time to get to know every player on the team, even the Mulumba's and Crabtree's of the world, he sets a fine example for younger players, I don't care if he cusses out Mac for a bad call or subtly throws shade at a GM, he's good enough to do that.

HZ calls Rodgers out for doing that because HZ believes AR isn't good enough to do that.  HZ is in the vast minority here with this opinion.

[Kepler]

1 hour ago, Pugger said:

HZ calls Rodgers out for doing that because HZ believes AR isn't good enough to do that.  HZ is in the vast minority here with this opinion.

If you look at the list of athletes HZ was responding to, just look at the one big difference between everyone else on that list and Rodgers. One of these things is not like the others in that case. 

[MacReady]

1 hour ago, Pugger said:

HZ calls Rodgers out for doing that because HZ believes AR isn't good enough to do that.  HZ is in the vast minority here with this opinion.

Rodgers has 4 touchdowns and 5 interceptions in Championship games. 

Favre had 9 touchdowns and 7 interceptions in Championship games. 

Rodgers needs to perform better in big games for him to be considered on the same level as those other players.  He isn't. 

[TheBitzMan]

16 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Rodgers has 4 touchdowns and 5 interceptions in Championship games. 

Favre had 9 touchdowns and 7 interceptions in Championship games. 

Rodgers needs to perform better in big games for him to be considered on the same level as those other players.  He isn't. 

2 of those championship games he played generational defenses and went 1-1. You really faulting him for a dropped onside kick and a defensive collapse? The other he was down 28-0 because a Full Back fumbled on the Falcons 10 and he had a historically bad defense. 

Oh and let's just leave out 3TDs 0 INTs in a game called the Super Bowl. 

Rodgers is not the reason this teams doesn't have more Super Bowls, I think that is pretty obvious. 

Also since you're all about comparing him to Brady let's take a look at his numbers in Championships games. 

Brady's Championship games:

2001: Patriots 24, Steelers 17

Stats: 12-18, 115 yards, 0-0 TD/INT, 84.3 rating (LOL!)

2003: Patriots 24, Colts 14

Stats: 22-37, 237 yards, 1-1 TD/INT, 76.1 rating (LOL!)

2004: Patriots 41, Steelers 27

Stats: 14-21, 207 yards, 2-0 TD/INT, 130.5 rating (Pats Defense picked off Big Ben 3 times)

2006: Colts 38, Patriots 34

Stats: 21-34, 232 yards, 1-1 TD/INT, 79.5 rating (LOL!)

2007: Patriots 21, Chargers 12

Stats: 22-33, 209 yards, 2-3 TD/INT, 66.4 rating (Hilarious)

2011: Patriots 23, Ravens 20

Stats: 22-36, 239 yards, 0-2 TD/INT, 57.5 rating (unbelievable really)

2012: Ravens 28, Patriots 13

Stats: 29-54, 320 yards, 1-2 TD/INT, 62.3 rating (HAHAHAH)

2013: Broncos 26, Patriots 16

Stats: 24-38, 277 yards, 1-0 TD/INT, 93.9 rating (solid game v. a great defense)

2014: Patriots 45, Colts 7

Stats: 23-35, 226 yards, 3-1 TD/INT, 100.4 rating (solid game)

2015: Broncos 20, Patriots 18 

Stats: 27-56, 310 yards, 1-2 TD/INT, 56.4 rating (terrible)

2016: Steelers 17, Patriots 36

Stats: 32-42, 384 yards, 3-0 TD/INT, 127.5 (good game)

2017: Jaguars 20, Patriots 24

Stats: 26-38, 290 yards, 2-0 TD/INT, 108 rating (standard game)

Totals - 17 TDS/12 INTs 

 

Can you imagine what would happen to the Packers if Rodgers put up some of those stat lines? It's almost like a defense holding a team under 35 points and being able to get off the field late in games matters...

[Gopher Trace]

 While I don't agree with the idea that Rodgers has a problematic ego ala Favre and am not worried this will evolve into another just drama as Brett's "un-retirement" affair, I do have one similar criticism: Rodgers loses his cool in games way too easily.

He's meticulous, and when things start going wrong in a game, he often starts getting pissy/pouty even before the game is really out-of-reach. It drives me crazy.

TB12 never does that. If anything, Brady gets a fire in his eye and is primed to make a comeback, and you know his team is going to make said comeback.

Rodgers and Brady both played the MVP!Ryan-led Falcons deep in the playoffs two seasons ago. Packers obviously had some major problems on defense and we all kinda knew we overachieved by getting that far at all, granted. Still, you go back to that game, and the team clearly surrendered after the Ripkowski fumble -- Rodgers being a chief offender.

And yeah, we probably don't win that game even if he keeps at it, but then a lot of folks thought the Patriots were toast going into the half 28-3. No SuperBowl team had pulled off a bigger comeback, but that wasn't going to stop Tom Terrific. He pulled it off (Damn near tied up the game in this last one, too: Gronk was right there on the Hail Mary pass). Yes, yes, they had the defense to hold, but that does not in any way excuse Rodgers giving up too quickly. It has to stop.

Cam Newton used to do a similar thing (pouting when losing games) as a rookie until one of his veteran teammates called him out on it. Someone needs to call Rodgers out on it, too. I just dunno who can.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Gopher Trace
spacing LIKE A BOSS

[MacReady]

Just now, TheBitzMan said:

2 of those championship games he played generational defenses and went 1-1.

I have already said that I think Brady is the most overrated QB ever.  Giving me his numbers do nothing.  He's overrated.  Rodgers would absolutely have won every Super Bowl Brady played in if he had been a Patriot in his prime. 

I really don't know why people keep trying to use Brady as an example.  Rodgers is better than Brady.  I have never and will never suggest otherwise. 

1-1 against generational defenses... Look at the circumstances of those games.  Rodgers had a generational receiing corps against one of those defenses, and our own defense forced four turnovers and Rodgers threw two passes to running backs.  Rodgers is just as responsible for that Seattle collapse as any other player.  He had a crap game.  Cam Newton had 246 yards, 2 touchdowns and 2 interceptions against that generational defense.  Brady had 328 and 4 touchdowns against that generational defense.  How?  They threw to their effing running backs because pride didn't keep them from it.  Shane Vereen had 11 receptions in that Super Bowl.  Starks and Kuhn combined for 2.

Stop acting like Aaron's poop doesn't stink.  He brings his struggles on himself through his stubbornness.  If Rodgers would have taken what was given to him in that Championship game, he'd have two Super Bowl wins.  That defense was the best we'd had since 2010.  We'd already beaten the Patriots that year, and we would have done it again.  Rodgers doesn't own all the blame obviously, but in a game where one play would have been the difference, he isn't blameless. 

[TheBitzMan]

2 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Rodgers needs to perform better in big games for him to be considered on the same level as those other players.  He isn't. 

I was simply pointing out this statement is completely false. 

[TheBitzMan]

8 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

  Rodgers had a generational receiing corps against one of those defenses

This is a joke correct?

Jennings/2nd Year Jordy/James Jones is generational? Can I have some of what you are smoking?

You will do anything to discredit Rodgers, I actually applaud the effort.

Edited April 12, 2018 by TheBitzMan

[MacReady]

Just now, TheBitzMan said:

I was simply pointing out this statement is completely false. 

Yeah, those players I meant excluding Brady.  I had said earlier that I don't think Brady belongs with the rest of them (Jordan, James, Gretzky...).  At the same time, Belichick and McDaniels would make Rodgers throw to running backs more.  McCarthy, I think, is an enabler. 

[TheBitzMan]

Just now, HorizontoZenith said:

Yeah, those players I meant excluding Brady.  I had said earlier that I don't think Brady belongs with the rest of them (Jordan, James, Gretzky...).  At the same time, Belichick and McDaniels would make Rodgers throw to running backs more.  McCarthy, I think, is an enabler. 

I can agree with this. 

[MacReady]

Just now, TheBitzMan said:

Jennings/Jordy/James Jones is generational? Can I have some of what you are smoking?

Forgetting somebody?

14 seasons of 1,000 yards between the receivers he had that year.  Each of them had over 50 career touchdowns.  Those four receivers have a combined 245 touchdown catches between them. 

 

[TheBitzMan]

Just now, HorizontoZenith said:

Forgetting somebody?

14 seasons of 1,000 yards between the receivers he had that year.  Each of them had over 50 career touchdowns.  Those four receivers have a combined 245 touchdown catches between them. 

 

Oh so Driver makes it generational. Got it. 

And having two HOF/MVP QBs has nothing to do with their success.

[MacReady]

Just now, TheBitzMan said:

Oh so Driver makes it generational. Got it. 

And having two HOF/MVP QBs has nothing to do with their success.

Answer your own question.  Do you think Donald Driver was only talented because of his quarterbacks?  Do you think Greg Jennings was only talented because of his quarterbacks?  Jones?  Nelson?  It was a wildly talented receiving corps.  You could probably find ten receiving corps that combined for more yards and touchdowns in the history of the NFL.  32,000 yards, 245 touchdowns.  Prove me wrong.