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C0LTSFAN4L1F3

Using ANY/A as a means to compare across eras

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14 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Roger Staubach 3rd best QB of all time*? Ken Anderson 12th best?* This checks out.

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but I do think Ken Anderson is one of the most underrated quarterbacks in history, with the most overrated being either Elway or Aikman. 

14 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

you need to redefine your definition of "suck"; Joe Flacco nailed "average." Andy Dalton is about an average QB. Manning is below average, but as the above poster intimated, it's tough to know how much of that is innate ability and how much of it was, in the words of Bum Phillips, that he was "a franchise QB without a franchise." 

Flacco was below average across the several years that he played, he definitely sucks. If you are average at best, you shouldn't have been allowed to be a starter for that long in the first place. Eli sucks no matter which way you view his supporting cast. 

14 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Elway's 3 SB losses are more impressive than his 2 wins, as the 3 losses were teams that obviously had no business being there, aside from Elway, getting to the SB, whereas the 2 wins were absolutely LOADED teams doing what they were supposed to do.** 

I disagree, the 3 losses he achieved by winning the god awful AFC. This was during the time period where the AFC had lost 14 straight Super Bowl's, and several of which were not even close. It's really not that impressive to win an AFC filled to the brim with trash teams. In the case of the Packers Super Bowl, he was playing Favre and an equally stacked Packers team as his team. If I recall correctly, the Broncos were big underdogs in that Super Bowl. 

On 4/15/2019 at 1:30 AM, Classic said:

I'm surprised that Young leads this group. I would have expected his 2 seasons in Tampa Bay would plummet his stats in the same way  you mentioned Peyton Manning's 2015 did

The first TB season didn't count, because I didn't count anybody's rookie year. Nobody cares how bad you sucked as a rookie nor should it matter, it should be a learning experience not one that demands high performance. 

12 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said:

Not sure what you're trying to prove by ignoring rookie seasons

What exactly is wrong with it? I see no reason to include rookie years

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1 minute ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but I do think Ken Anderson is one of the most underrated quarterbacks in history, with the most overrated being either Elway or Aikman. 

Ken Anderson is a HoF guy, IMO. Staubach is top 5 ever, he nailed about every measure you'd want a QB to hit in his brief (proto-Steve Young) career, and they were easily the 2 best QBs in the 70s. 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with Aikman being overrated; as far as the AFC being godawful, it didn't have the monster teams, but it wasn't wholly bereft of talent, either - if nothing else, there were the Marino-era Dolphins and in the latter part the Marv Levy-era Bills, Moon-led Oilers, and the Seahawks put together some good teams as well in the mid-80s, even if the latter 2 never quite got over the hump. 

Also, the Manning that Bum Phillips was talking about was Archie. Eli Manning is the player who is going to utterly make me lose faith in the HoF when he goes in. Because you f'in know he will. 

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6 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Also, the Manning that Bum Phillips was talking about was Archie. Eli Manning is the player who is going to utterly make me lose faith in the HoF when he goes in. Because you f'in know he will. 

That's my point with Archie, the 70s era Saints were a literal dumpster fire

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Big takeaway from this is Ken Anderson should be in the HOF.

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8 minutes ago, game3525 said:

Big takeaway from this is Ken Anderson should be in the HOF.

He totally should!!

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Great work here, hats off to you! Really wish we could compare Otto Graham on here to see where he truly stacked up in terms on greatest QBs of all-time. He has always been such an enigma to me due to the stacked teams he played on, but you can't deny his greatness due to his insane dominance and how great of a QB his peers revered him as.

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1 hour ago, Titans_Matt said:

Great work here, hats off to you! Really wish we could compare Otto Graham on here to see where he truly stacked up in terms on greatest QBs of all-time. He has always been such an enigma to me due to the stacked teams he played on, but you can't deny his greatness due to his insane dominance and how great of a QB his peers revered him as.

We can’t ever get him measured by ANY/A+, but we can look at AY/A+. Largely these line up relatively similarly, with a few guys up or down and a handful of enigmas that are widely off, but those are rare.

So Graham actually has the highest AY/A+ ever recorded. His Rate+ (passer rating adjusted for era) also ranks #1 overall, his INT%+ ranks #1 overall, his Y/A+ ranks #1, his comp%+ ranks 5th, and his TD%+ ranks 20th. Unless he was a sack machine, he probably finishes no lower than the top 3 in ANY/A+ if we had the data. 

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On 4/14/2019 at 12:47 PM, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

Oh my God I know. This mostly just serves to validate what I already thought of Aikman. People's first defense is always "Oh, his numbers don't look that good now, but it was a different era!" Even relative to his era, he was still  not that great at all. He just so happened to be on these super stacked teams. Hell, I wouldn't even say he was one of the 3 best players on his own offensive unit

Who is going to argue with that? He's playing at an efficiency level similar to that of Andrew Luck today, except he did it for his entire career. Luck is going to get better and this number is going to look way better in 10 years, in Elway's case, that's what he peaked out at.  

Thats never the defense for Aikmen. The defense is that he was clutch in the playoffs and his own coach admitted they under utilized him.

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Quote

 wholeheartedly agree with Aikman being overrated; as far as the AFC being godawful, it didn't have the monster teams, but it wasn't wholly bereft of talent, either - if nothing else, there were the Marino-era Dolphins and in the latter part the Marv Levy-era Bills, Moon-led Oilers, and the Seahawks put together some good teams as well in the mid-80s, even if the latter 2 never quite got over the hump. 

I think Aikman is a bit underrated. His 1992 post-season run is up there with the best of them. I agree about Elway though. He was mediocre for the majority of his career and really only became an above average QB in the mid-90s.

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5 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

Thats never the defense for Aikmen. The defense is that he was clutch in the playoffs and his own coach admitted they under utilized him.

Being under utilized is irrelevant when his efficiency is trash. 

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10 hours ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

Being under utilized is irrelevant when his efficiency is trash. 

Troy spent his entire career throwing 50/50 jumpballs 40 yards down the field.

 

Put him in a WCO and his numbers would have been god like.

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On 4/18/2019 at 10:39 AM, Matts4313 said:

Troy spent his entire career throwing 50/50 jumpballs 40 yards down the field.

And if he was any good at it, then his numbers would show it. But he wasn't, he was a good qb on great teams, not a great qb on good teams or any other variation of the phrase. He does not deserve any more praise than being "good" being that he was never especially good at ANY point in his career. 

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One thing is certain.

If Eli Manning makes the HOF, then Jim Plunkett should be right behind him.

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10 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Odd how Dallas fans are praising Aikman yet using similar arguments to say Elway wasn't good.

did i miss it where that happened?

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