Top 10 MVP Snubs of All Time

[TecmoSuperJoe]

This was done by Elliot Harrison of NFL.com. I usually like what he has to say. I was going to post this in the throwback/nostalgia thread, but it didn't seem retrospective enough for me. Not sure why. Watching this video though, just reiterated the notion that there should be another award along the lines of just "best player" where regardless the importance of position (which is quarterback at the top), someone is recognized for just being dominate at what they do. Essentially, anyone can win the award. 

 

[Jlowe22]

One of the problems with MVP.  There can be multiple players deserving of the award in the same season, and it comes down to voter preference, which is gonna be biased.

In general, the players that win MVP had MVP caliber seasons, but they may or may not be the only ones that did.

[Apparition]

I was on board with this video until it gave Chris Johnson the nod in 2009 over Drew Brees. 

[RaidersAreOne]

Nathan Peterman, 18/19.

[footbull3196]

Manning over Brees in 2009 is the first one that comes to mind. Also someone please explain how John Elways 19 TDs and 12 INTs beat out Jerry Rices 22 TD receptions in 12 games in 1987.  Don’t forget about Peyton Manning over Michael Turner in 2008 and Joe Montana over Jim Kelly in 1990

[C0LTSFAN4L1F3]

Peyton deserved all of his MVPs. Brees nor anyone else were snubbed for the 08' and 09' MVPs. 

Jim Kelly should have been MVP in 1990, that's definitely a good example. 

[iknowcool]

35 minutes ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

Peyton deserved all of his MVPs. Brees nor anyone else were snubbed for the 08' and 09' MVPs. 

Eh, I just don't see his argument over Brees in 2009.

Brees had a better CMP%, more TDs, fewer interceptions, better Y/A, better QB rating, etc.  He led one of the best offenses of the decade (they were on a tear until they played the Cowboys in December).  Stats aren't the be all, end all, but I don't know what Manning did better than Brees that season.  Even if you say its because the Colts were 14-0 before they benched their starters, it isn't like the Saints weren't just as good.  They started 13-0 and I'd argue looked better doing it.  They absolutely dominated the Patriots that season.  And I know the postseason doesn't matter for this, but the Saints averaged well over 30 PPG in the playoffs too.

I can kind of understand why Manning won in 2008.  There wasn't any other really strong contender.  But Brees should have had it in 2009.

[footbull3196]

1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

Eh, I just don't see his argument over Brees in 2009.

Brees had a better CMP%, more TDs, fewer interceptions, better Y/A, better QB rating, etc.  He led one of the best offenses of the decade (they were on a tear until they played the Cowboys in December).  Stats aren't the be all, end all, but I don't know what Manning did better than Brees that season.  Even if you say its because the Colts were 14-0 before they benched their starters, it isn't like the Saints weren't just as good.  They started 13-0 and I'd argue looked better doing it.  They absolutely dominated the Patriots that season.  And I know the postseason doesn't matter for this, but the Saints averaged well over 30 PPG in the playoffs too.

I can kind of understand why Manning won in 2008.  There wasn't any other really strong contender.  But Brees should have had it in 2009.

Yeah, Manning got too much credit for them winning 4 straight games by a combined 10 points in the middle of the season. Aside from the 4th and 2 game against the Patriots (in which he still threw 2 critical INTs that put the Colts in a 17 point hole to begin with), he was pretty mediocre in all of them.  The defense was the main reason that the Colts won those games, yet the media fawned all over Peyton and it was ridiculous

[Apparition]

2 hours ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

Peyton deserved all of his MVPs. Brees nor anyone else were snubbed for the 08' and 09' MVPs. 

[C0LTSFAN4L1F3]

7 minutes ago, footbull3196 said:

 The defense was the main reason that the Colts won those games, yet the media fawned all over Peyton and it was ridiculous

Was it the defense that scored 3 touchdown drives in the 4th quarter against the 5th ranked scoring defense? Was it the defense with all of those game-winning drives? 

1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

Stats aren't the be all, end all, but I don't know what Manning did better than Brees that season. 

Peyton lost zero fumbles that season. Only David Garrard and Eli Manning had more lost fumbles than Drew Brees that season with 6. As far as I'm concerned, that's kind of a big deal. And that **** doesn’t show up to ruin your passer rating or increase your INT%, but it is of similar affect as an interception. A turnover is a turnover. One of these fumbles was a literal game-losing fumble in which Brees choked against the Cowboys in the whaning moments of the game, on what could have been a game-tying drive. 12 seconds left, he puts the ball on the turf. With 2 minutes, 16 seconds left on the clock, Brees failed to take his team down the field to tie the game. In another game, Brees lead his team to scores on his first 3 drives, but failed to produce any points in the final 6 drives, and the Saints lose. Peyton had a league-leading 7 game-winning drives and did not fail:

Colts down 20-23, 80 yard TD drive to put Colts up 27-23 with 3 minutes left

Colts down 12-14,  70 yard TD drive to put Colts up 18-12 in 4th quarter

Colts down 13-17, 80 yard TD drive to put Colts up 20-17 with 7 minutes left

Colts down 28-34, 29 yard TD drive to put Colts up 35-34 with 13 seconds left. (This coming directly after a 79 yard Touchdown drive, in a 4th quarter where Peyton led his team on 3 touchdown drives in the 4th quarter against the 5th ranked scoring defense in the NFL.)

Colts down 14-15, 60 yard FG drive to put Colts up 17-15 with 7 minutes left(this against the #3 scoring defense)

Colts down 28-31, 78 yard TD drive to put Colts up 35-31 with 5 minutes left

Colts down 14-20, 62 yard TD drive to put Colts up 21-20 with 8 minutes left

That, in contrast with Drew Brees’ drives in similar cases:

Saints tied 20-20, 76 yard FG drive to put Saints up 23-20 with 4 minutes left

Saints down 31-34, 79 yard TD drive to put Saints up 37-34 with 8 minutes left

Saints tied 30-30, 36 yard FG drive to give Saints win in OT, (To Brees’ credit they also had a 80 yard TD drive to tie the game with a minute left to send the game into overtime)

Saints tied 23-23, 63 yard FG drive to put Saints up 26-23 with 4 minutes left

Saints down 17-24, gets ball with 2:16 left, drives 38 yards before Brees fumbles ball with 12 seconds left

Saints tied 17-17, gets ball with 2:20 left, drives 65 yards missed 38 yard field goal with 9 seconds left, Saints lose. (Also worth noting they had the ball 3 times in the 4^th quarter and failed to score every time)

Peyton was 7 for 7, with 6 of them being touchdown drives.(did not fail) Brees was 4 for 6, obviously failing twice. One could argue that the final one was because of a missed field goal, but when you depend on 4 of your game-winning or game tying drives to be field goals, it isn’t shocking one of them missed. Peyton simply did not rely on field goals in those situations, he put the ball in the end zone himself. Peyton had 6 touchdown drives out of the 7, with only one being a field goal. Brees had only one game-winning touchdown drive the entire season.

To answer your question about what Peyton did better: he produced points when it mattered,(had 7-game winning drives to Brees'4) 

1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

it isn't like the Saints weren't just as good. 

Yes, it is. They lost two games, the Colts lost none. 

1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

They started 13-0 and I'd argue looked better doing it.  

Until they lost two games in large part because of Brees's failure to produce points whether it be overall, or in crunch time.

The 09' Colts did not lose a single game they were actually trying to win, that is important to voters. They went 14-0 before benching the starters the last two games.

Also:

Peyton produced 2.43 points/drive with a rushing attack producing 1294 yards at 3.54 yards per carry

Brees produced 2.6 point/drive with a rushing attack producing 2106 yards, 21 touchdowns ant 4.50 yards per carry

I find Peyton's offensive production to be more impressive, he didn't need a run game, that makes him more valuable. Brees did only slightly better with a dramatically better rushing attack. (Peyton's was last in rushing yards, Brees was 6th, Peyton's was 30th in Y/A, Brees' was 7th)

To summarize:

1. Peyton was more clutch as I detailed earlier

2. Peyton lost 0 fumbles, Brees lost 6

3. Peyton had an only slightly less productive offense with the last ranked rushing attack compared to Brees' 6th, meaning Manning added more raw value. 

Don't get me wrong, Brees had a fantastic season, but I believe Peyton's to be better. 

 

[footbull3196]

45 minutes ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

Was it the defense that scored 3 touchdown drives in the 4th quarter against the 5th ranked scoring defense? Was it the defense with all of those game-winning drives? 

Peyton lost zero fumbles that season. Only David Garrard and Eli Manning had more lost fumbles than Drew Brees that season with 6. As far as I'm concerned, that's kind of a big deal. And that **** doesn’t show up to ruin your passer rating or increase your INT%, but it is of similar affect as an interception. A turnover is a turnover. One of these fumbles was a literal game-losing fumble in which Brees choked against the Cowboys in the whaning moments of the game, on what could have been a game-tying drive. 12 seconds left, he puts the ball on the turf. With 2 minutes, 16 seconds left on the clock, Brees failed to take his team down the field to tie the game. In another game, Brees lead his team to scores on his first 3 drives, but failed to produce any points in the final 6 drives, and the Saints lose. Peyton had a league-leading 7 game-winning drives and did not fail:

Colts down 20-23, 80 yard TD drive to put Colts up 27-23 with 3 minutes left

Colts down 12-14,  70 yard TD drive to put Colts up 18-12 in 4th quarter

Colts down 13-17, 80 yard TD drive to put Colts up 20-17 with 7 minutes left

Colts down 28-34, 29 yard TD drive to put Colts up 35-34 with 13 seconds left. (This coming directly after a 79 yard Touchdown drive, in a 4th quarter where Peyton led his team on 3 touchdown drives in the 4th quarter against the 5th ranked scoring defense in the NFL.)

Colts down 14-15, 60 yard FG drive to put Colts up 17-15 with 7 minutes left(this against the #3 scoring defense)

Colts down 28-31, 78 yard TD drive to put Colts up 35-31 with 5 minutes left

Colts down 14-20, 62 yard TD drive to put Colts up 21-20 with 8 minutes left

I’ll definitely give you the point about Manning not fumbling at all the entire season, but it’s important to note that he got sacked a league low 10 times and still threw 16 INTs.  The only QBs that threw more INTs were Cutler, rookie Stafford and Sanchez, and totally washed up Jake Delhomme and Matt Hasselbeck

I don’t think you’re giving the defense enough credit for how well they played that season and how many times they bailed him out.  Let’s look at circumstances involving these games:

Week 2 (@Dolphins) - You got me there.  Colts had the ball for less than 15 mins and still won and that had never been done before.  Manning was as efficient as he could possibly be

Week 8 (vs 49ers) - Lol, the TD pass came from Joseph Addai on the very first play of the 4th quarter.  Manning threw 0 TDs and 1 INT.  Don’t think this one should really count in his favor

Week 9 (vs Texans) - He threw a critical INT near the end of the first half in the red zone with the Colts already up 13-0 and let them back into the game.  Texans led in the 2nd half and would have tied on the last play of the game if not for Kris Brown missing a 42 yard field goal.  Manning threw for over 300 yards but 1 TD and 1 INT.  This one is definitely up for debate

Week 10 (vs Patriots) - Give me a break lol.  As soon as the Pats missed the 4th and 2 by half a yard, it was obvious the Colts were going to go a measly 30 yards for a TD.  They were gifted that one.  I know Manning led them back from a 17 point deficit, but he also put them in the deficit to begin with by throwing 2 INTs that turned the tide in the 3rd quarter

Week 11 (@Ravens) - There’s no way Manning deserves all the credit for this one or even close to it.  Not only did he throw just 1 TD to 2 INTs, not only did the Ravens miss a field goal earlier in the game that could have decided it (since it was a 2 point loss after all), but Joe Flacco threw a critical INT late in the game with the Ravens well in field goal range.  Ed Reed also made a ridiculous play late in the game by trying to lateral on a punt and costing the Ravens possession instead

 

I’ll definitely give you the game against Houston, as even though he threw a couple INTs early in the game, he led them back from a 17-0 deficit and played really well after that.  I also give him credit for throwing the 65 yard TD to Reggie Wayne in the Jaguars game, but let’s not gloss over the fact that the defense stepped up and made a pick in the Jaguars red zone late in the game to seal the win

Im not sure why Brees should be punished for the fact that his team didn’t have to come back as much.  They handily dismantled that Patriots team that had the Colts on the ropes btw (though to be fair you could probably say the same thing about the Saints having trouble with the 1-15 Rams that the Colts totally diced)

To sum it up, I think everyone was kind of tired of Manning pretty much unconditionally being the front runner for MVP at this point, and this would have been a perfect time for some fresh blood in the award.  I know Brees has never won an MVP, but it would have made total sense to give it to him in this situation. I think the media driven narrative of Manning being the majority of the reason they were winning close games was what pushed him back into the MVP spot yet again

[C0LTSFAN4L1F3]

10 minutes ago, footbull3196 said:

Im not sure why Brees should be punished for the fact that his team didn’t have to come back as much.  

He isn't. If you got that idea, then you misinterpreted this. He's being punished for failing miserably when it mattered multiple times, while Peyton did not. If Brees was 4 for 4 and Peyton was 7 for 7, then this argument would work, but that's not the case. Also, I never claimed that Peyton deserved all of the credit for all of the wins they had. 

Quote

but it’s important to note that he got sacked a league low 10 times and still threw 16 INTs. 

How is that important to note? The sacks are irrelevant. And Brees had more turnovers at the end of the day, so the fact that he threw 16 INTs isn't especially important. 

[footbull3196]

1 minute ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

He isn't. If you got that idea, then you misinterpreted this. He's being punished for failing miserably when it mattered multiple times, while Peyton did not. If Brees was 4 for 4 and Peyton was 7 for 7, then this argument would work, but that's not the case. 

Also, I never claimed that Peyton deserved all of the credit for all of the wins they had. 

Fair enough, but I don’t think that the Cowboys game by itself should push Brees below Peyton in the pecking order.  I’m not really going to count the Bucs game against Brees because it’s not his fault that they gave up a 65 yard punt return to tie the game and then he promptly drove them into field goal range and his kicker missed the field goal and they never saw the ball again

I will say, even though just about every Colts fan rushes to Manning’s defense in this specific debate, you’ve at least been one of the more reasonable ones about it and this is why I feel that we can at least have this discussion and get somewhere with it.  I had one on here one time with another Colts fan about this specific situation and it was way too obvious what his agenda was

[C0LTSFAN4L1F3]

Just now, footbull3196 said:

I’m not really going to count the Bucs game against Brees because it’s not his fault that they gave up a 65 yard punt return to tie the game and then he promptly drove them into field goal range and his kicker missed the field goal and they never saw the ball again

He "promptly" failed to score on 6 straight drives against the 27th ranked scoring defense.  They scored on the first 3, and did nothing for the final 6. He absolutely without a doubt deserves blame for that. 

3 minutes ago, footbull3196 said:

I will say, even though just about every Colts fan rushes to Manning’s defense in this specific debate, you’ve at least been one of the more reasonable ones about it and this is why I feel that we can at least have this discussion and get somewhere with it.  I had one on here one time with another Colts fan about this specific situation and it was way too obvious what his agenda was

Well of course, the defense was pretty good that year. I loved that team. I'm just saying, if you don't think Peyton deserves a ton of credit for pulling out those wins too, then you're mistaken. And again, it is important to note Peyton had the absolute worst rushing attack but still put up points at a similar rate to the Saints' offense. 

[footbull3196]

27 minutes ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

He "promptly" failed to score on 6 straight drives against the 27th ranked scoring defense.  They scored on the first 3, and did nothing for the final 6. He absolutely without a doubt deserves blame for that. 

Well of course, the defense was pretty good that year. I loved that team. I'm just saying, if you don't think Peyton deserves a ton of credit for pulling out those wins too, then you're mistaken. And again, it is important to note Peyton had the absolute worst rushing attack but still put up points at a similar rate to the Saints' offense. 

True, but Brees doesn’t deserve all the blame like he probably did for the Cowboys game.  I’d at least put it at 50/50

I think Peyton deserves a lot of credit for at least 3-4 of the comeback wins.  I just think there were a few that he got all the credit for that he didn’t deserve, and that gave him an edge in MVP voting.  I’ll give you the point about the rushing game, though let’s not act like Pierre Thomas and Mike Bell were doing Brees a huge favor themselves.  And I’d say Manning’s primary targets were probably an upgrade from that of Brees since Wayne and Clark both had huge seasons, whereas Marques Colston was remarkably consistent but not anything too special and Shockey was nearing the end of this career