***Spoiler Thread*** Avengers: Endgame

[TecmoSuperJoe]

42 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

I could argue she was the most consequential part of the film. Without her Tony never gets saved. If Tony never gets saved they never figure out time travel. If they never figure out time travel nobody is brought back, Natasha doesn’t die, Tony doesn’t die, Steve never goes back in time to live his best life,  etc. etc. In fact, even if they were to figure out time travel without him it wouldn’t have mattered since the 1 time they win out of 14,605,000 had to unfold with Tony getting the gauntlet and snapping so it was absolutely necessary he be saved and it wouldn’t have happened without Danvers making her the most vital character of the entire film.

Also, it’s not about Marvel being more powerful regardless if they were nerfed or not. It’s the fact that they were nerfed for being too powerful yet she is even more powerful than them both and gets to stay true to how powerful she truly is.

Right, I stated earlier that is really the only part of importance she has to the story part. Even if Captain Marvel wasn't around though, I don't see it being a difficult write around for Tony to have been found some other way, or get back to Earth some other way. After 3 weeks Rocket could have randomly found them instead, who was also searching. Or Tony finally fixes the ship after it seems hopeless. I'd say Dr. Strange is the most vital character since he was introduced in the MCU. 

Hulk and Thor weren't nerfed for being too powerful. They went through some personal cicumstances, and as a result they lost some of their edge/power. That's not the same thing to me at all. I don't believe those circumstances were written into the story just to give them a power downgrade for fight scenes or another more powerful hero was now around. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by PapaShogun

[TecmoSuperJoe]

11 minutes ago, Forge said:

Absolutely agree. I was positive that was how they were going to send him out too. I don't know why they gave that to Tony. Didn't make any sense. He legit had a built in reason at the start of the movie to "retire" after this was all over (plus, Downey seems at least slightly more amenable to coming back at some point in the far future than Evans does, who I think is putting this far into his rear view mirror). 

Probably a call back to the conversation Steve and Tony had in the first Avengers film. Captain criticizes Tony, saying he would never be the one to lay his life on the line. To make the sacrifice play, lay down on the wire while letting the other guy crawl over him. Tony replies he would probably just cut the wire...

Tony used to be the ultimate narcissist. When he gets the Gauntlet, in a sense he has absolute power, but he gives it up, and his life (which includes a daughter now) for the greater good. Even though he did that in the first Avengers film with the missile, I still felt Tony definitively come full circle more so. Loved the way he went out.   

[RuskieTitan]

6 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

Gamora didn't come back to life. That was 2014 Gamora in the movie.

All they did was reverse the snap. That doesn't bring back everyone who has ever died.

So does this mean Loki is still dead?

[TecmoSuperJoe]

8 minutes ago, RuskieTitan said:

So does this mean Loki is still dead?

2018 Loki is dead.

2012 Loki/now alternate past 2012 Loki is alive. Where he vanished too via the Space gem is unknown. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by PapaShogun

[FinneasGage]

On 4/26/2019 at 9:15 PM, RandyMossIsBoss said:

So can I get an explanation for Cap?

Solo handedly returns all 5 stones to as they were when taken, hmmm, ok fine I’ll accept that. Obviously they’re not gonna explore all that. 

Then stays in 1945 or 1970? At whichever point in time, doesn’t that make 2 Caps? How did this not create a new timeline? Also, Cap went and lived out a peaceful life (ran away from job as hero) and sat by while Hydra did bad stuff.

 

A) I can’t wrap my head around how this time travel works and

B) this seems very out of character 

it's for sure not gonna happen, but i'd love a solo cap movie explaining this 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

Just now, FinneasGage said:

it's for sure not gonna happen, but i'd love a solo cap movie explaining this 

Perhaps in the new What If series for Disney+, which I think is animated, one of the stories may be about Captain's quest to return the stones to their proper origin.

Coming face to face with Red Skull would be interesting...assuming he's still there. 

[Deadpulse]

51 minutes ago, Forge said:

1 hour ago, dtait93 said:

We also need to be asking since Cap stayed in the 40’s and grew old (meaning he never got stuck in the ice) how come he sat back and let Hydra take over Shield? How come he sat back and let Hydra torture is best friend Bucky for years and years? How did all these movies happen with him at an advanced age? We know the blonde chick in Civil War (Sharon Carter) is Peggy’s niece and since he married Peggy doesn’t that mean he kissed his niece...? 

This is actually something I've had a problem with in regards to his ending. Like, I feel like Cap is not the type of person that would have just been sitting around "living his life" while all that mess was going on? Just seems like a weird decision. I don't know...maybe some people do think that is something he would do, but it's kind of hard for me to wrap my head around. 

This might make it easier to swallow. He knows that even if he did get involved, he would simply fracture time because he cannot effect his own future because then he wouldnt have the future in which he travels back in time to effect his own future (paradox). Therefore, if he did get involved and changed things, it would NOT have changed anything that happened to any of the people he spent time with. Because he laid low, he created a time loop and therefore does NOT fracture time and reconnects time.

 

TLDR: It wouldnt have mattered if he got involved because his future will ALWAYS happen. 

[broncofan48]

Just now, Deadpulse said:

This might make it easier to swallow. He knows that even if he did get involved, he would simply fracture time because he cannot effect his own future because then he wouldnt have the future in which he travels back in time to effect his own future (paradox). Therefore, if he did get involved and changed things, it would NOT have changed anything that happened to any of the people he spent time with. Because he laid low, he created a time loop and therefore does NOT fracture time and reconnects time.

 

TLDR: It wouldnt have mattered if he got involved because his future will ALWAYS happen. 

Maybe Old Cap has always been the guy Peggy married 

[Deadpulse]

Just now, broncofan48 said:

Maybe Old Cap has always been the guy Peggy married 

If he creates a time loop, then yes that is correct because time is not fractured. 

[dtait93]

3 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

This might make it easier to swallow. He knows that even if he did get involved, he would simply fracture time because he cannot effect his own future because then he wouldnt have the future in which he travels back in time to effect his own future (paradox). Therefore, if he did get involved and changed things, it would NOT have changed anything that happened to any of the people he spent time with. Because he laid low, he created a time loop and therefore does NOT fracture time and reconnects time.

 

TLDR: It wouldnt have mattered if he got involved because his future will ALWAYS happen. 

Idk that doesn’t add up for me. If he didn’t get involved then his future (as we came to know it) would absolutely change.

[dtait93]

25 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

2018 Loki is dead.

2012 Loki/now alternate past 2012 Loki is alive. Where he vanished too via the Space gem is unknown. 

Based on what the Sorcerer Supreme explained to Banner, if Cap returned the stone at the exact time it was taken doesn’t that mean that the alternate reality that was created actually gets erased and there is only 1 reality again?

Edit: And because there’s only 1 reality again isn’t there still only 1 Loki who died in 2018?

Edited April 29, 2019 by dtait93

[Broncofan]

21 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

This might make it easier to swallow. He knows that even if he did get involved, he would simply fracture time because he cannot effect his own future because then he wouldnt have the future in which he travels back in time to effect his own future (paradox). Therefore, if he did get involved and changed things, it would NOT have changed anything that happened to any of the people he spent time with. Because he laid low, he created a time loop and therefore does NOT fracture time and reconnects time.

 

TLDR: It wouldnt have mattered if he got involved because his future will ALWAYS happen. 

 

20 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

Maybe Old Cap has always been the guy Peggy married 

 

8 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

Idk that doesn’t add up for me. If he didn’t get involved then his future (as we came to know it) would absolutely change.

Actually it makes sense.  Follow me here. 

Cap knows Dr. Strange saw 1 outcome that wins out of 14+ million.   This one.  So as much as he hates it - he doesn’t alter the timeline.  

He saves Bucky earlier - maybe the butterfly effect never gets them a shot to reverse Thanos’ snap.  It could create a better short term outcome but prevent the one single path to survive IW Thanos.   Stark’s line after Thanos’s surprise attack - you mess around with Time, Time will swing back.   Cap would have known all of this in his return back.  

The fact Peggy never told Steve who she married - tells me that they knew not to interfere with the timeline.   Hard for Cap to do?   Absolutely.  

But in the words of Steven Strange - it was the only way.   Like he gestured to Stark - 1 way.  Time travel Cap kept it that way by staying on the sidelines after returning the stones.  

Edited April 29, 2019 by Broncofan

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1 minute ago, dtait93 said:

Based on what the Sorcerer Supreme explained to Banner, if Cap returned the stone at the exact time it was taken doesn’t that mean that the alternate reality that was created actually gets erased and there is only 1 reality again?

Right. I think so. So alternate branches are essentially erased. So if that's the case, I don't know what happens to Loki. Since the past doesn't effect the same future. 

I don't know how they'll spin it. 

[Deadpulse]

14 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

Idk that doesn’t add up for me. If he didn’t get involved then his future (as we came to know it) would absolutely change.

He cant affect his own future, only create a NEW future vis-a-vi an alternate timeline. Our/His future remains separate from that.

[dtait93]

10 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

 

 

Actually it makes sense.  Follow me here. 

Cap knows Dr. Strange saw 1 outcome that wins out of 14+ million.   This one.  So as much as he hates it - he doesn’t alter the timeline.  

He saves Bucky earlier - maybe the butterfly effect never gets them a shot to reverse Thanos’ snap.  It could create a better short term outcome but prevent the one single path to survive IW Thanos.   Stark’s line after Thanos’s surprise attack - you mess around with Time, Time will swing back.   Cap would have known all of this in his return back.  

The fact Peggy never told Steve who she married - tells me that they knew not to interfere with the timeline.   Hard for Cap to do?   Absolutely.  

But in the words of Steven Strange - it was the only way.   

Okay so when Cap meets old Peggy (in Civil War I think?) laying in bed dying of age how does that scene for example stay the same if he’s actually an old man at the end of Endgame?