***Spoiler Thread*** Avengers: Endgame

[theJ]

Just now, PapaShogun said:

Why even take that risk? Captain America was never predicated on a lie, and shouldn't be. Also, people knew who Steve Rogers was.

I felt like being argumentative? 

I don't really have a good reason.

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, seminoles1 said:

He's assassinated and murdered dozens (if not 100+) of people in his life. Killing a few alien dogs isn't enough to make up for that.

 

1 hour ago, theJ said:

He was also brainwashed into doing it.

 

18 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

The world doesn't know that.

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, theJ said:

Sure.  But the world doesn't have to know who is behind the mask either.

Steve stopped wearing a mask somewhere along the way (and apparently so did Iron Man in Endgame lol, going into battle against Thanos without his headgear - what was that about???).  But the mask could make a comeback.

I'm all for what they did, btw.  Don't mind that Bucky isn't Cap.  Even though he was brainwashed and has been helping, it's pretty obvious he's not a completely virtuous character.  He still has some things to work out before he's worthy of carrying the shield.

IMO the last part is what seals the deal for me.

Remember, for Bucky, his path:

1.  Spent a ton of time recovering in Wakanda.   He's not even seen the rest of the world since Civil War, and never as a free man.  

2.  He just returned from getting dusted for 5 years in IW.

3.  Sure, he's done a ton of good in IW and now Endgame.   But in actual time spent recovering from decades of brainwashing, and learning to be Bucky again - he's literally still in the early phases.  His only experience in the modern world has been as a fugitive on the run from Winter Soldier to Civil War, and then going into cryostasis in Wakanda, and then getting thawed out.  He wasn't deemed fit to hit the outside world until after BP.   That's literally months before IW.   

I don't have any problem with Sam getting the shield TBH.  I don't have a problem if Bucky is Sam's successor.  I can totally get why Bucky didn't get the shield now, though.   From that timeline, Bucky's literally just learning to adjust to the modern world as a free man, with no blood on his ledger, and no price on his head.   That's a HUGE jump to make him the next Captain America - forget from a public PR perspective, I'm talking him as a person.   Just my 2 cents.

[Broncofan]

7 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

 

 

 

IMO the last part is what seals the deal for me.

Remember, for Bucky, his path:

1.  Spent a ton of time recovering in Wakanda.   He's not even seen the rest of the world since Civil War, and never as a free man.  

2.  He just returned from getting dusted for 5 years in IW.

3.  Sure, he's done a ton of good in IW and now Endgame.   But in actual time spent recovering from decades of brainwashing, and learning to be Bucky again - he's literally still in the early phases.  His only experience in the modern world has been as a fugitive on the run from Winter Soldier to Civil War, and then going into cryostasis in Wakanda, and then getting thawed out.  He wasn't deemed fit to hit the outside world until after BP.   That's literally months before IW.   

I don't have any problem with Sam getting the shield TBH.  I don't have a problem if Bucky is Sam's successor.  I can totally get why Bucky didn't get the shield now, though.   From that timeline, Bucky's literally just learning to adjust to the modern world as a free man, with no blood on his ledger, and no price on his head.   That's a HUGE jump to make him the next Captain America - forget from a public PR perspective, I'm talking him as a person.   Just my 2 cents.

Can’t edit for some weird reason just meant to say “no more blood on his ledger and coming to grips with his past deeds and guilt”.    Weird with edit button not working.  

[Ragnarok]

Did anyone else expect the Hulk to stand up in full Hulked-out rage mode when the Sorcerer Supreme knocked Bruce's consciousness out of his body?

 

[Broncofan]

8 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Did anyone else expect the Hulk to stand up in full Hulked-out rage mode when the Sorcerer Supreme knocked Bruce's consciousness out of his body?

 

For a sec.  But then I remembered the body is paralyzed when the spirit/soul (or whatever) leaves with that move.  

Edited May 1, 2019 by Broncofan

[The Gnat]

34 minutes ago, theJ said:

I was just thinking about this comment (i know, digging back several pages).  The Thor we saw all throughout Endgame was definitely not a Skrull.  A Skrull would not have been able to wield Mjolnir.

Agreed, but with going forward, I could see Thor being a likely candidate to become Skrull, now that Mjolnir is somewhere?

[Ragnarok]

3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

For a sec.  But then I remembered the body is paralyzed when the spirit/soul (or whatever) leaves with that move.  

Yeah, I was thinking that it could be two different consciousnesses and rage Hulk would be strong enough to overcome the paralysis.

[dtait93]

31 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Did anyone else expect the Hulk to stand up in full Hulked-out rage mode when the Sorcerer Supreme knocked Bruce's consciousness out of his body?

 

Yeah, but then it never happened at any point of the movie and I was pissed because we didn't get it in Infinity War either. So. Lame. They had such a great opportunity to let him run amok against the countless minions in the final battle in Infinity War or the final battle in Endgame and they just passed it up. They also had a brute force in Black Dwarf they could have let him go toe to toe with as a side battle but instead had Ruffalo screaming like an idiot in the Hulkbuster (in Infinity War) and was one shot when he was stepped on by Lang in Endgame.

[buddy_z34]

2 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

Yeah, but then it never happened at any point of the movie and I was pissed because we didn't get it in Infinity War either. So. Lame. They had such a great opportunity to let him run amok against the countless minions in the final battle in Infinity War or the final battle in Endgame and they just passed it up. They also had a brute force in Black Dwarf they could have let him go toe to toe with as a side battle but instead had Ruffalo screaming like an idiot in the Hulkbuster (in Infinity War) and was one shot when he was stepped on by Lang in Endgame.

This is one superhero that Marvel has really messed up. The potential was limitless. I say was because it's too late now.

[Broncofan]

4 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

Yeah, but then it never happened at any point of the movie and I was pissed because we didn't get it in Infinity War either. So. Lame. They had such a great opportunity to let him run amok against the countless minions in the final battle in Infinity War or the final battle in Endgame and they just passed it up. They also had a brute force in Black Dwarf they could have let him go toe to toe with as a side battle but instead had Ruffalo screaming like an idiot in the Hulkbuster (in Infinity War) and was one shot when he was stepped on by Lang in Endgame.

To be fair, Hulk just survived snapping the Gauntlet.  I don't have any problem with the Endgame scene, no way he should be even close to 100 percent of old Hulk given that.    The missed opp was in IW, IMO (sack up, come out and go nuts - only to lose again to Thanos...that would have been awesome IMO).

Edited May 1, 2019 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

Just now, buddy_z34 said:

This is one superhero that Marvel has really messed up. The potential was limitless. I say was because it's too late now.

FWIW, I don't blame Marvel for how this has gone down.  I blame Universal - well, not them, but the fact that they own his rights.

People forget that Universal owns the Hulk's rights, except in a limited fashion that they ceded to Marvel to have Hulk appear in ensemble movies only, and could not be the lead guy.   That agreement pretty much has kept Hulk on the sidelines.  Avengers was as close as we could get to seeing full Hulk.  And only because Rogers & Stark (and Loki) can easily be billed as the main stars, with Hulk/Thor/Hawkeye/Widow as the supporting cast.  

Given Marvel had no way to develop Hulk into a standalone property - he also becomes a property they would never make essential or integral to the unit's core function.  The "we have a Hulk" was a great line in Avengers - but it was no coincidence IW had that line crushed for what it was - an illusion.  I would have been irate with the writers if that was a 100 percent conscious decision - but the business side plays a HUGE factor in Hulk's fate.   I have zero doubt the business side of Hulk's potential and the limited scope to which Marvel can use him has led to his current fate.   Sucks, but this is a business first and foremost.

[Ragnarok]

5 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

Yeah, but then it never happened at any point of the movie and I was pissed because we didn't get it in Infinity War either. So. Lame. They had such a great opportunity to let him run amok against the countless minions in the final battle in Infinity War or the final battle in Endgame and they just passed it up. They also had a brute force in Black Dwarf they could have let him go toe to toe with as a side battle but instead had Ruffalo screaming like an idiot in the Hulkbuster (in Infinity War) and was one shot when he was stepped on by Lang in Endgame.

The Endgame part of it I didn't mind as much because he had just snapped the gauntlet and was pretty messed up.  Plus, they made the choice to severely nerf him through the whole Professor Hulk thing.  What would have been cool is if snapping the gauntlet had made the real Hulk come out in super pissed mode.

Wasn't a huge fan of the way IW handled Hulk.  Him Hulking out through the Hulkbuster armor would have been awesome.

[THE DUKE]

1 hour ago, theJ said:

Sure.  But the world doesn't have to know who is behind the mask either.

Steve stopped wearing a mask somewhere along the way (and apparently so did Iron Man in Endgame lol, going into battle against Thanos without his headgear - what was that about???).  But the mask could make a comeback.

I'm all for what they did, btw.  Don't mind that Bucky isn't Cap.  Even though he was brainwashed and has been helping, it's pretty obvious he's not a completely virtuous character.  He still has some things to work out before he's worthy of carrying the shield.

I actually thought about that during the movie.  One punch from Thanos and Tony's head would explode like Gallagher hitting a watermelon.

[dtait93]

34 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

To be fair, Hulk just survived snapping the Gauntlet.  I don't have any problem with the Endgame scene, no way he should be even close to 100 percent of old Hulk given that.    The missed opp was in IW, IMO (sack up, come out and go nuts - only to lose again to Thanos...that would have been awesome IMO).

Before Hulk/Banner put on the gauntlet he did say though that he will be mostly exposed to gamma radiation...so wouldn't that have made him stronger?

[Broncofan]

2 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

Before Hulk/Banner put on the gauntlet he did say though that he will be mostly exposed to gamma radiation...so wouldn't that have made him stronger?

Well given that it nearly killed him, there's a limit, right?  And the fact it's mostly gamma radiation might be the only reason why he survived - and as we saw immediately post-snap, Hulk's right side was pretty wrecked.   And we saw it in the Cap-returning-stones scene, too.  So it's consistent.  

Remember, even 1 Infinity Stone's power exposed often kills ppl.  It took all 4 GOTG with Quill being half-Celestial to survive the Power Stone.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Broncofan