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A "Fant-astic" Mock


Karnage84

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26 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Bevell utilizes a TE as his third option in the passing game. A guy like Graham was the most impactful. There are guys that could develop into some decent if not solid TE's in the class: Knox, Warring, Moreau, Oliver. They all have work to do as receivers and would be best utilized as run blockers to start. Fant is more polished and can be flexed out.

No he doesn't.  He under utilized Graham if anything.  When he didn't have a Graham type player, TE's didn't see much action at all.  Its about working with what you have as opposed to trying to fit into a mold.  When he had Graham, he went to him more, because he was an elite TE and was likely the second or third best option on the team.  Same with Gronk.  He saw targets, not because McDaniels likes his TE's but because that's where they were able to create mismatches.  I'm not passing on an elite DE for a 3rd or 4th option, if the TE is as good as Graham, which I doubt.

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12 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

No he doesn't.  He under utilized Graham if anything.  When he didn't have a Graham type player, TE's didn't see much action at all.  Its about working with what you have as opposed to trying to fit into a mold.  When he had Graham, he went to him more, because he was an elite TE and was likely the second or third best option on the team.  Same with Gronk.  He saw targets, not because McDaniels likes his TE's but because that's where they were able to create mismatches.  I'm not passing on an elite DE for a 3rd or 4th option, if the TE is as good as Graham, which I doubt.

there we go...facts...

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7 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

No he doesn't.  He under utilized Graham if anything.  When he didn't have a Graham type player, TE's didn't see much action at all.  Its about working with what you have as opposed to trying to fit into a mold.  When he had Graham, he went to him more, because he was an elite TE and was likely the second or third best option on the team.  Same with Gronk.  He saw targets, not because McDaniels likes his TE's but because that's where they were able to create mismatches.  I'm not passing on an elite DE for a 3rd or 4th option, if the TE is as good as Graham, which I doubt.

Since 2006, the TE1 was targeted on 13.20% of pass attempts. WR1 20.51%, WR2 15.05% and WR3 11.29%. It did vary with the personnel but it didn't change too much.

Depending on who is sitting there at #8, we might have a choice in picking an "elite" DE.

The premise of this mock, for the record, is that in the rumours about the Lions trading down they are targeting TE or OL.

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5 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

How in god's name could we need a safety more than a corner? We have no CB 2 and one of the better safety duos you could ask for IMO. The next safety plays like 300 snaps where as CB2 is probably the third most valuable spot in our d

Our safeties are not one of the better duo's.  They are young and have potential but they aren't elite.  And Diggs is due for a payday soon.  I am comfortable with the CB's we have signed plus the youth we still have that can continue to develop.  I am not worried about CB at this point to be honest.  If one falls into our lap, fine, but I don't think its an immediate need.

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9 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Since 2006, the TE1 was targeted on 13.20% of pass attempts. WR1 20.51%, WR2 15.05% and WR3 11.29%. It did vary with the personnel but it didn't change too much.

Depending on who is sitting there at #8, we might have a choice in picking an "elite" DE.

The premise of this mock, for the record, is that in the rumours about the Lions trading down they are targeting TE or OL.

I get the premise of the mock, but don't agree with it and won't be happy if they do it.  TE is just not a position that changes games unless you have an all time great.  I am guessing just about any team you look at would have similar numbers for passes thrown.  3rd WRs usually have less targets than a #1 TE.  But that doesn't mean they are a focal point of an offense.  it means they need to change it up to keep D's honest.  If teams have a great TE, they throw to them more.  if not they find other options.  If a TE can make a Gronk type impact, draft him.  If not then roll with what we have and draft a lotto ticket.  Simple as that IMO. 

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6 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I get the premise of the mock, but don't agree with it and won't be happy if they do it.  TE is just not a position that changes games unless you have an all time great.  I am guessing just about any team you look at would have similar numbers for passes thrown.  3rd WRs usually have less targets than a #1 TE.  But that doesn't mean they are a focal point of an offense.  it means they need to change it up to keep D's honest.  If teams have a great TE, they throw to them more.  if not they find other options.  If a TE can make a Gronk type impact, draft him.  If not then roll with what we have and draft a lotto ticket.  Simple as that IMO. 

Yeah but would you take Gronk top 10? I still think Brady and Bill were 98% of it...hes fun to watch so maybe that part is worth it. I just personally dont value TE. Out of the 44 people on the field I would say they are the most overrated position on the field other then a #3...I personally would rather use KJ. I just hope he stays healthy for like 12-14 games. We literally can upgrade every spot on Defense....except Trey Flowers...only cause he's a new FA...I personally think he's a bit overrated. Hoping for the best though. 

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7 minutes ago, NFL_Fan said:

Yeah but would you take Gronk top 10? I still think Brady and Bill were 98% of it...hes fun to watch so maybe that part is worth it. I just personally dont value TE. Out of the 44 people on the field I would say they are the most overrated position on the field other then a #3...I personally would rather use KJ. I just hope he stays healthy for like 12-14 games. We literally can upgrade every spot on Defense....except Trey Flowers...only cause he's a new FA...I personally think he's a bit overrated. Hoping for the best though. 

I would draft Gronk top 10 if I knew he would have the impact of Gronk. Problem is Gronk is the best TE to ever play the game and is not likely to pop up again any time soon.  Even a Kelce or Ertz, they would be nice, but we can get that production from a WR as long as we have someone who can block at TE. 

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13 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I would draft Gronk top 10 if I knew he would have the impact of Gronk. Problem is Gronk is the best TE to ever play the game and is not likely to pop up again any time soon.  Even a Kelce or Ertz, they would be nice, but we can get that production from a WR as long as we have someone who can block at TE. 

Fair enough, but if all you're doing is getting that guy to block then you're limiting your offense and would be better having an extra OL in there. Or you're going to have a heck of a time running the ball rolling out 4 WR's all of the time too.

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2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Our safeties are not one of the better duo's.  They are young and have potential but they aren't elite.  And Diggs is due for a payday soon.  I am comfortable with the CB's we have signed plus the youth we still have that can continue to develop.  I am not worried about CB at this point to be honest.  If one falls into our lap, fine, but I don't think its an immediate need.

Yeah, I have nearly complete opposite thoughts on the CB's vs the safeties. I don't think we should be putting blind faith into Walker but he's less of a concern than guys like Kenny Wiggins is at RG.

We aren't drafting for just this year. We've had issues upon issues in the secondary for years. Melvin isn't signed beyond this year. He's probably going to start but I don't know if he's going to be the guy when the season ends. I'm expecting one of our rookies to step up and be that guy.

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2 hours ago, NFL_Fan said:

Yeah but would you take Gronk top 10? I still think Brady and Bill were 98% of it...hes fun to watch so maybe that part is worth it. I just personally dont value TE. Out of the 44 people on the field I would say they are the most overrated position on the field other then a #3...I personally would rather use KJ. I just hope he stays healthy for like 12-14 games. We literally can upgrade every spot on Defense....except Trey Flowers...only cause he's a new FA...I personally think he's a bit overrated. Hoping for the best though. 

We finished off the year as a top 10 defense. The scheme is a factor for sure but it's the players who are the ones making the plays on the field. There are some players we could upgrade on but it's a bit far fetched to say that we could throw out the whole defensive side of the ball and get a better group of players in an easy manner.

Flowers got paid and it was well deserved. It was market value - if you want to eat lobster, you're going to have to pay for it.

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2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

Fair enough, but if all you're doing is getting that guy to block then you're limiting your offense and would be better having an extra OL in there. Or you're going to have a heck of a time running the ball rolling out 4 WR's all of the time too.

Jesse James does both well enough to not be a signal to the play type.  You don't need elite TE's to be successful. And there are plenty of WRs that block better than Ebron.

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48 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Yeah, I have nearly complete opposite thoughts on the CB's vs the safeties. I don't think we should be putting blind faith into Walker but he's less of a concern than guys like Kenny Wiggins is at RG.

We aren't drafting for just this year. We've had issues upon issues in the secondary for years. Melvin isn't signed beyond this year. He's probably going to start but I don't know if he's going to be the guy when the season ends. I'm expecting one of our rookies to step up and be that guy.

I'm all aboard the replace Kenny Wiggins band wagon, but not in the first.  That's a whole different argument. 

I get we don't have a long term plan at a true CB2, but I have enough faith in Slay and Coleman to hold down the fort.  Coleman is typically a nickel back, but can play outside in 2CB sets.  Melvin/Tabor/mid/late rounder will be fine to fill in the other spot.  I don't think the position doesn't need to be upgraded, I just worry more about S remaining a strength. 

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7 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Our safeties are not one of the better duo's.  They are young and have potential but they aren't elite.  And Diggs is due for a payday soon.  I am comfortable with the CB's we have signed plus the youth we still have that can continue to develop.  I am not worried about CB at this point to be honest.  If one falls into our lap, fine, but I don't think its an immediate need.

Diggs is already extended and they are committed to Walker. There aren't snaps like our guys or not

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4 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I'm all aboard the replace Kenny Wiggins band wagon, but not in the first.  That's a whole different argument. 

I get we don't have a long term plan at a true CB2, but I have enough faith in Slay and Coleman to hold down the fort.  Coleman is typically a nickel back, but can play outside in 2CB sets.  Melvin/Tabor/mid/late rounder will be fine to fill in the other spot.  I don't think the position doesn't need to be upgraded, I just worry more about S remaining a strength. 

WIggins is 3rd on the depth chart if not 4th at RG. Oday, Crosby and possibly Dahl now in front of him IMO. 

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