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Trading up in the draft


sonny44

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7 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

Trading up this draft would be stupid. The sweet spot this year is rounds 2-4. We just so happen to have picks in those rounds. Let buddy boy take BPA and let’s go. Or trade out and accumulate draft capital for future years when we will actually need it. 

I’ll always be down for moving picks for better value the following year, but I still think we have plenty of need this year, it’s just not a need for immediate starters.

IMO we still need;

QB3: Developmental guy this year to eventually take over for Stanton as the long term backup

RB3: This is obviously dependent on trading Duke, but unless they like whatshisname better than us, there’s a potential need here.

WR5/6: Of course Ratley and Willies are in play here, but they’re hardly locks imo.

TE3/4: Charles and DeValve are fine, but both are FA after this season and neither are special in any way. A more long term option should certainly be on the table.

OT3 or 4: Robinson is on a one year deal, Hubbard is expensive for being average and Harrison hasn’t proven anything really.  I’d be shocked if they don’t add someone.

C2/OG3: We have no long term replacement for Tretter on the roster.

DT3: Some sort of rotational option other than Coley is needed.

LB: A lot of bodies, not a lot of young, developmental talent.

CB: Ward, Mitchell and Carrie seem like locks, but that’s about it. Similar to LB in the fact there’s not an immediate need for a starter, but no young developmental talent either.

FS2: Perhaps we keep Randall long term, if so the need here decreases a bit, but we still need a backup as BBC is gone. Very likely need a long term starter here.

SS2: Similar situation to FS, the starter is locked up but we need a long term option or at least a decent backup.

 

That’s roughly 11 roster spots that are a “need” to some degree, or at least something we should try to upgrade if able.

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Anyone using Callaway to describe Dorsey's ability to find talent in the later rounds needs to find a better reason.  Callaway was a first round talent that dropped due to off field issues.  Dorsey(And most every other team) knew it.  Dorsey just pulled the trigger first overlooking those off field issues.  

 

Yes talent can be found in the later rounds.  However talent can also be found in UDFAs.  I have zero problems if Dorsey identifies 2-3 guys he wants in the draft and makes the moves to get those guys, and then fills the roster with remaining UDFAs, and FAs. 

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3 minutes ago, Tomahawk said:

Anyone using Callaway to describe Dorsey's ability to find talent in the later rounds needs to find a better reason.  Callaway was a first round talent that dropped due to off field issues.  Dorsey(And most every other team) knew it.  Dorsey just pulled the trigger first overlooking those off field issues.  

Yeah, much like when he found Hill in KC, it wasn’t an issue of identifying talent, but rather a risk assessment.

Kudos to him for rolling the dice though, it hasn’t backfired yet and he’s reaping the rewards.

 

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8 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

Trading up this draft would be stupid. The sweet spot this year is rounds 2-4. We just so happen to have picks in those rounds. Let buddy boy take BPA and let’s go. Or trade out and accumulate draft capital for future years when we will actually need it. 

Unless have a chance on a guy that Dorsey covets that drops, otherwise I agree that the meat of this draft is 2-4, either way I'll be satisfied because there is a high probability that player will be a ball player.

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1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Unless have a chance on a guy that Dorsey covets that drops, otherwise I agree that the meat of this draft is 2-4, either way I'll be satisfied because there is a high probability that player will be a ball player.

Yeah I know I speak in absolutes a lot in here, but if there’s a guy you think is can’t miss I can see trading up. 

But people in here thought draft picks were valuable when we crap. They’re even more valuable now that we have a chance to win and cap space will be scarce. 

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3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

TE3/4: Charles and DeValve are fine, but both are FA after this season and neither are special in any way. A more long term option should certainly be on the table.

giphy.gif

Orson is going to find you.

At this point, I can’t help you. You’re on your own.

giphy.gif

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I agree with @LETSGOBROWNIES here. We don't have many urgent needs, but we still need depth and should utilize our picks to develop players who can become starters down the road. I don't think we'll draft a WR or RB though, unless there's one Dorsey and company deem too good to pass on later in the draft.

We need TE depth. DeValve can be cut yesterday for all I care. It seems like Dorsey likes Harris more than most of us do, but I could see us adding another TE either this year or next.

I could see us drafting Tretter's eventual replacement. He's a very solid center, but if he expects to be paid like a top one, then I'm not sure we'd bring him back. I think we could also use some depth at OT.

We need more at CB. Hopefully Ward's injuries this past season won't be a recurring theme, but we'll be in trouble if they are. Mitchell was solid last year, but the rest of our CBs are decent at best.

The importance of adding a LB seems to vary on this forum. Personally, I think we're set with our starters for at least this year, but we could definitely use some depth at the position, IMO. Then again, we signed a couple of backup LBs, but I have no idea how good they are or if they were signed primarily to play on ST.

Even though we brought in Richardson and Vernon, I could still see us drafting a DT and/or a DE in the draft. First of all, those guys may not be long-term options for us. And second of all, you can never have too much depth along the DL. I could see us drafting some high-upside lineman to possibly eventually take over starting spots from Richardson and Vernon.

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Honestly I think Dorsey will move up if/when there is a player he values super high drops.  I don't think he mortgages the farm for any move. 

I think we will indeed draft a WR or a RB, as those are the players where value is usually found later in the draft.  Probably with a 5th, 6th, or 7th, if we don't trade those. 

I see them going defense, or OL with the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounders.  

Again, people bring up TE.  Based on all of the comments made by the team, I don't feel they agree with the sentiment that we lack depth at TE.  I think Dorsey REALLY likes his Harris.  Njoku, and Harris aren't going anywhere.  The 3rd and 4th TE are mostly just used for 1 offs and blocking FB roster spots.  So sure they may bring in a developmental guy, but I don't think Dorsey has his eyes on any TE in this draft that he thinks will develop into a difference maker. 

Like I've said previously(barring something like a trade for Jalen Ramsey) I think Secondary, LB, and DL/OL depth/development will be our primary concern with this draft.

 

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1 minute ago, Tomahawk said:

Honestly I think Dorsey will move up if/when there is a player he values super high drops.  I don't think he mortgages the farm for any move. 

I think we will indeed draft a WR or a RB, as those are the players where value is usually found later in the draft.  Probably with a 5th, 6th, or 7th, if we don't trade those. 

Agree with this.  Duke will likely be a trade chip, and not a particularly valuable one at this point.  But I do think Duke will be gone by the end of the weekend.

I haven't scouted as much as a lot of you guys, but man, this RB group looks strong.  So many guys worth taking a mid- or late-round flyer on.

I know Dorsey has his share of misses like every GM, but I love stories like this:

 

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5 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said:

Agree with this.  Duke will likely be a trade chip, and not a particularly valuable one at this point.  But I do think Duke will be gone by the end of the weekend.

I haven't scouted as much as a lot of you guys, but man, this RB group looks strong.  So many guys worth taking a mid- or late-round flyer on.

I know Dorsey has his share of misses like every GM, but I love stories like this:

 

Dorsey does seem to be especially good at identifying RB’s.  

I’d use that for all it’s worth and have a 3 deep stable at all times, especially if you’re only using day 2/3 picks to do it.

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16 minutes ago, Tomahawk said:

Again, people bring up TE.  Based on all of the comments made by the team, I don't feel they agree with the sentiment that we lack depth at TE.  I think Dorsey REALLY likes his Harris.  Njoku, and Harris aren't going anywhere.  The 3rd and 4th TE are mostly just used for 1 offs and blocking FB roster spots.  So sure they may bring in a developmental guy, but I don't think Dorsey has his eyes on any TE in this draft that he thinks will develop into a difference maker. 

I don’t think it’s a huge need or anything, like you said our TE1 and TE2 are locked up, but the bottom two guys are replaceable (still love Charles’s intensity and attitude) and he inherited DeValve.  

I guess all I’m saying is that if a TE is BPA, there’s no reason we shouldn’t take them and there’s definitely a roster spot to be had.

16 minutes ago, Tomahawk said:

Like I've said previously(barring something like a trade for Jalen Ramsey) I think Secondary, LB, and DL/OL depth/development will be our primary concern with this draft.

I agree with this.  I think we’ll see 2-3 DB’s total tbh.

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I'm not optimistic that TEs will drop in this draft.  I think in most scenarios, teams with needs will reach.  

Bengals, Cowboys, Jags, Lions, Packers, Saints, all need a TE1.  Bills, Cardinals, Broncos, Jets, Pats, Raiders, Texans, and Titans all need a TE2.  

6 teams with a NEED, and 8 with more of a need than us tells me there aren't likely going to be any draftable TEs available when we pick unless we move up for one. 

I'm not sure there are 14 draftable TEs, but if there are, I expect them gone without us moving up for one.  With that being the case, I think if we bring in any others they will be UDFAs. 

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7 hours ago, Tomahawk said:

Anyone using Callaway to describe Dorsey's ability to find talent in the later rounds needs to find a better reason.  Callaway was a first round talent that dropped due to off field issues.  Dorsey(And most every other team) knew it.  Dorsey just pulled the trigger first overlooking those off field issues.  

 

Yes talent can be found in the later rounds.  However talent can also be found in UDFAs.  I have zero problems if Dorsey identifies 2-3 guys he wants in the draft and makes the moves to get those guys, and then fills the roster with remaining UDFAs, and FAs. 

This is true, but there are other examples

Geneard Avery was a GREAT pickup in later rounds.

3rd round might not be late enough but Travis Kelcie is now the best TE in the game

DJ Alexander in the 5th...

Hes made some very good late round picks.

But he also seems to have an eye for talent all around.  Not everyone knew what Patrick Maholmes was, I thought he had bust written all over him.  Very few people wanted Baker Mayfield over Sam Darnold and look what happened.  A lot of fans here are Ohio State fans and very few wanted Denzel Ward over Bradley Chubb but very few are complaining now.

He just seems like he has a decent eye for talent.

 

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