Woz Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Depends on who is on the board at 15. If we get that death board (all of the best defensive talent gone), then absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Woz said: Depends on who is on the board at 15. If we get that death board (all of the best defensive talent gone), then absolutely. Why not stay at 15 and take BPA? If you do that then you’re still getting a good D prospect or one of the best WR or OG prospects in the draft. Edited April 23, 2019 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: Why not stay at 15 and take BPA? If you do that then you’re still getting a good D prospect or one of the best WR or OG prospects in the draft. Because you’d still get that at 24, just with an extra 2nd or 3rd round player thrown in for free. One of the keys to effectively managing the NFL draft is humility. No one nails every pick and every player, so you need to be able to make your peace with the fact that the draft is a crapshoot and your rankings/evaluations will often turn out to be wrong. It’s appealing and prideful to blindly trust your board and refuse to admit that you don’t REALLY know exactly how these guys will turn out — but the smartest teams don’t suffer from this kind of hubris, which is why they value pick quantity over higher picks. Let me re-frame the issue a bit. If we had pick 24 in this draft, would you be in favor of trading that pick plus a 2nd rounder to move up to #15? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 3 hours ago, e16bball said: Because you’d still get that at 24, just with an extra 2nd or 3rd round player thrown in for free. One of the keys to effectively managing the NFL draft is humility. No one nails every pick and every player, so you need to be able to make your peace with the fact that the draft is a crapshoot and your rankings/evaluations will often turn out to be wrong. It’s appealing and prideful to blindly trust your board and refuse to admit that you don’t REALLY know exactly how these guys will turn out — but the smartest teams don’t suffer from this kind of hubris, which is why they value pick quantity over higher picks. Let me re-frame the issue a bit. If we had pick 24 in this draft, would you be in favor of trading that pick plus a 2nd rounder to move up to #15? Ok, but you’re not getting your choice of the best. I’d rather have the #1 or 2 WR or OG prospect on our board or the #2 or 3 QB prospect than the #4 prospect on our board. I don’t value extra picks the way I used to a decade or two ago. I’ve found that the value of the pick usually means more than the volume of your picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 4 hours ago, turtle28 said: Ok, but you’re not getting your choice of the best. I’d rather have the #1 or 2 WR or OG prospect on our board or the #2 or 3 QB prospect than the #4 prospect on our board. I don’t value extra picks the way I used to a decade or two ago. I’ve found that the value of the pick usually means more than the volume of your picks. Not if you have good scouting and people good at picking undervalued talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, Skins212689 said: Not if you have good scouting and people good at picking undervalued talent. That only matters to a certain extent when you're passing on top talent for good, mediocre or worse talent rounds later. We have perfect examples in our history from 2008 & 2011 when we trade down and passed on better talent. I love Kerrigan but passing on JJ Watt wasn't wise. We could have taken Watt and had a 3-4 DE rotation of Bowen, Carriker & Watt. Lorenzo Alexander could have started at 3-4 LOLB or we could have drafted an OLB in round 2 like Brooks Reed or in round 3 or signed a FA to compete w/ Zo. Motto of the story is... Don't pass on talent. The Browns did that for years too. They passed on Julio Jones & Carson Wentz this decade and got, Phil Taylor, Brandon Weeden, Johnny Manziel, Justin Gilbert, and I think Corey Coleman instead; how’d that work out? Edited April 24, 2019 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 4 hours ago, turtle28 said: That only matters to a certain extent when you're passing on top talent for good, mediocre or worse talent rounds later. We have perfect examples in our history from 2008 & 2011 when we trade down and passed on better talent. I love Kerrigan but passing on JJ Watt wasn't wise. We could have taken Watt and had a 3-4 DE rotation of Bowen, Carriker & Watt. Lorenzo Alexander could have started at 3-4 LOLB or we could have drafted an OLB in round 2 like Brooks Reed or in round 3 or signed a FA to compete w/ Zo. Motto of the story is... Don't pass on talent. The Browns did that for years too. They passed on Julio Jones & Carson Wentz this decade and got, Phil Taylor, Brandon Weeden, Johnny Manziel, Justin Gilbert, and I think Corey Coleman instead; how’d that work out? Worked out fine for Us! Kerrigan has been a All Pro and hasn't been banged up like Watt. As I said it can work out fine if done properly. If they were to pass on talent like Burns, Ferrell, Sweatz, and still get AJ Brown, Deandre Baker, or Greedy Williams I'm fine with that. Or to pass on Haskins or Lock and still get Daniel Jones I'm good with that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: Worked out fine for Us! Kerrigan has been a All Pro and hasn't been banged up like Watt. As I said it can work out fine if done properly. If they were to pass on talent like Burns, Ferrell, Sweatz, and still get AJ Brown, Deandre Baker, or Greedy Williams I'm fine with that. Or to pass on Haskins or Lock and still get Daniel Jones I'm good with that as well. Kerrigan is a good pass rusher, he's not elite. He's been a pro bowler but never an All-Pro, Dan Snyder has never had an All-Pro on his roster. JJ Watt has led the NFL several times in sacks from what is essentially a DT position, almost unheard of. He’s a defensive player of the year candidate type player. I'd rather have a good to elite talent at OLB/DE rather those other guys but I know most fans still believe that it's very likely to get a late first round pick who’s good but won't likely ever be elite and a 2nd round pick who we hope just becomes a good starter. People are going to believe what they want but that’s what I’ve seen historically when trading down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Kerrigan is a good pass rusher, he's not elite. He's been a pro bowler but never an All-Pro, Dan Snyder has never had an All-Pro on his roster. JJ Watt has led the NFL several times in sacks from what is essentially a DT position, almost unheard of. He’s a defensive player of the year candidate type player. I'd rather have a good to elite talent at OLB/DE rather those other guys but I know most fans still believe that it's very likely to get a late first round pick who’s good but won't likely ever be elite and a 2nd round pick who we hope just becomes a good starter. People are going to believe what they want but that’s what I’ve seen historically when trading down. Dude its also proven you could get two Pro Bowl players in both rounds. **** Tom Brady was a 6th round pick! Agree to Disagree. It's also Proven Dan Synder doesn't know **** about Winning in Football!! Edited April 24, 2019 by Skins212689 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 I always remind myself the 49ers got Jerry rice because they didn’t want to give up a 3rd instead of a 5th to move up with the bengals!!! And I love Kerrigan but JJ would have been amazing!!!! If there’s a beast sitting there you take him. If there’s not trade back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Skins212689 said: Dude its also proven you could get two Pro Bowl players in both rounds. **** Tom Brady was a 6th round pick! Agree to Disagree. It's also Proven Dan Synder doesn't know **** about Winning in Football!! One 6th round pick in 20 years is proof that it happens? I think that proves it’s highly unlikely. Edited April 24, 2019 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 13 hours ago, turtle28 said: hat only matters to a certain extent when you're passing on top talent for good, mediocre or worse talent rounds later. We have perfect examples in our history from 2008 & 2011 when we trade down and passed on better talent. I love Kerrigan but passing on JJ Watt wasn't wise. We could have taken Watt and had a 3-4 DE rotation of Bowen, Carriker & Watt. One more time: J. J. Watt was never the target for Washington. He didn't become J. J. FREAKIN' WATT until after entered the league. He was projected as a top 20 prospect that Houston knocked out out of the park. The guy that Washington wanted was Robert Quinn. They traded down figuring that the teams in between wouldn't go for him, not figuring that the Rams would spend another first round pick on a pass rusher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Woz said: One more time: J. J. Watt was never the target for Washington. He didn't become J. J. FREAKIN' WATT until after entered the league. He was projected as a top 20 prospect that Houston knocked out out of the park. The guy that Washington wanted was Robert Quinn. They traded down figuring that the teams in between wouldn't go for him, not figuring that the Rams would spend another first round pick on a pass rusher. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganF89 Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share Posted April 25, 2019 11 hours ago, turtle28 said: Kerrigan is a good pass rusher, he's not elite. He's been a pro bowler but never an All-Pro, Dan Snyder has never had an All-Pro on his roster. JJ Watt has led the NFL several times in sacks from what is essentially a DT position, almost unheard of. He’s a defensive player of the year candidate type player. I'd rather have a good to elite talent at OLB/DE rather those other guys but I know most fans still believe that it's very likely to get a late first round pick who’s good but won't likely ever be elite and a 2nd round pick who we hope just becomes a good starter. People are going to believe what they want but that’s what I’ve seen historically when trading down. Trent Williams was an all pro. not defending dan tho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 21 minutes ago, LoganF89 said: Trent Williams was an all pro. not defending dan tho! 2nd team. Once. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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