AlexGreen#20 Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 23 hours ago, Cheech said: A few questions: Dremont Jones seems to have some pretty big holes in his run defense. I could see top 44, but top 30? Oshane Ximines - I watched 4 or 5 of his games and I don't see anything special at all. Nice size, but he seems to be a slow burner without much of a plan. Kind of the same with Irv Smith. His athleticism is a big question mark for me, and I just don't see a top 75 player there. The other is Amani Hooker. I didn't see him at all. Pettine seems to love safeties that can play multiple positions well. Hooker isn't going to wow anyone with his athleticism or size, but I think he'll be just as good as Hyde. Jones issues can be covered up letting him play the Wilkerson role outside the tackle. He was my last rated of the 30s Ximines, rushing with a plan is the easiest thing to teach. You're right that it's drafting for ceiling though. Here's certainly not utilizing many moves. I've got no real questions about Smith's athleticism. If anything he might be the easiest to project of the top 3 guys. Don't know why I don't have Hooker on there. He's a top 75 guy. He's not Hyde though. Nowhere near the man to man skills but a fair bit better on the back end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cheech said: By watching 4 or 5 of his games? He got by with a hand swipe and speed rush vs. tackles from FIU and VMI, but that isnt going to translate to the NFL. He got stoned in the Marshall game until the 2nd or 3rd string right tackle came out in the 4th quarter. I see him stand up at the snap - Maybe a product of spread offense, but it really limits his first step. He doesn't offer a counter or a bull rush, so I see a 2 to 3 year project before he's even a rotational player. Sure. Would you like me to find a few examples of counters, or are we good? Edited April 22, 2019 by Cadmus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 52 minutes ago, Cadmus said: Sure. Would you like me to find a few examples of counters, or are we good? Context matters. Who was that rep against? He racks up a few nice plays here, too. But when you actually pay attention to who he does it against, it becomes a bit underwhelming. The starting RT #71 and TE #15 win the vast majority of the reps in this game. He made some nice plays vs. the backup RT #77, but look at the guys form. He drops his head, bends at the waist, and us just looking to get beat around the outside. I see a lot of similarities with the way he and Fackrell rush the passer. He's taken out of multiple plays by the TE as well. I just don't see a 3rd round pick considering his competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Cheech said: Context matters. Who was that rep against? He racks up a few nice plays here, too. But when you actually pay attention to who he does it against, it becomes a bit underwhelming. The starting RT #71 and TE #15 win the vast majority of the reps in this game. He made some nice plays vs. the backup RT #77, but look at the guys form. He drops his head, bends at the waist, and us just looking to get beat around the outside. I see a lot of similarities with the way he and Fackrell rush the passer. He's taken out of multiple plays by the TE as well. I just don't see a 3rd round pick considering his competition. He played for Old Dominion, nearly everyone he plays against won't be top tier competition. Are you telling me that a prospect in a non-Power 5 conference requires some level of projection to the NFL level? ... He's raw, but the tools are there to develop into a double digit sack player in the NFL if everything clicks. My biggest criticisms of are completely unrelated to your views (that have seemingly evolved in a matter of two posts). I could post stuff about Ximenes from the Senior Bowl if you're so intensely focused on competition level, but it honestly seems pointless based on your approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Cadmus said: He played for Old Dominion, nearly everyone he plays against won't be top tier competition. Are you telling me that a prospect in a non-Power 5 conference requires some level of projection to the NFL level? ... He's raw, but the tools are there to develop into a double digit sack player in the NFL if everything clicks. My biggest criticisms of are completely unrelated to your views (that have seemingly evolved in a matter of two posts). I could post stuff about Ximenes from the Senior Bowl if you're so intensely focused on competition level, but it honestly seems pointless based on your approach. Uh, every player at every level of college requires projection. The kid that was drafted in the 7th last year also has tools to develop. But you take those guys on day 3, not in the top 75 picks. Quite a few draft boards have him in the 125 range, which I think is completely fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, Cheech said: Uh, every player at every level of college requires projection. That's exactly what I'm saying. I have him as a fringe Top 100 guy. I talked about him as a possibility at the 3rd/4th turn in the past... along with Crosby, Hollins and Banogu. We can just end it here, we don't have some crazy different view on the player, and the conversation is going nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadyToThump Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 AG, one guy I really like is very low on your board, Garrett Bradbury. Do you see him as a center only? Maybe that would explain where he's ranked on your list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 5 hours ago, ReadyToThump said: AG, one guy I really like is very low on your board, Garrett Bradbury. Do you see him as a center only? Maybe that would explain where he's ranked on your list. I don't think he's center only, I just think he's better at center than he will be at Guard. Turner and Taylor are my starters. Is Bradbury really going to project to be better than McCray/Madison/Patrick/Siragusa? Maybe? I just don't know what the value of upgrading the backup guard positions are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I don't think he's center only, I just think he's better at center than he will be at Guard. Turner and Taylor are my starters. Is Bradbury really going to project to be better than McCray/Madison/Patrick/Siragusa? Maybe? I just don't know what the value of upgrading the backup guard positions are. Maybe? Dudes a plug and play 10 year starter to me. He's better than the 4 you listed right now. Think he's about perfect for the ZBS. He's going round 1 though so I don't see any chance of him being ours, but I'd consider him at 44. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Maybe? Dudes a plug and play 10 year starter to me. He's better than the 4 you listed right now. Think he's about perfect for the ZBS. He's going round 1 though so I don't see any chance of him being ours, but I'd consider him at 44. You and I just aren't seeing this one the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said: You and I just aren't seeing this one the same. I've got him as my #1 IOL just a smidge in front of Lindstrom. Both guys with a mid 2nd grade. I've got Jonah as a OT for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: I've got him as my #1 IOL just a smidge in front of Lindstrom. Both guys with a mid 2nd grade. I've got Jonah as a OT for the time being. I'll go back on it. Just wasn't impressed on first blush. There's probably some tape of him against Clemson somewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadyToThump Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 9 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I don't think he's center only, I just think he's better at center than he will be at Guard. Turner and Taylor are my starters. Is Bradbury really going to project to be better than McCray/Madison/Patrick/Siragusa? Maybe? I just don't know what the value of upgrading the backup guard positions are. I see what you're saying and read yours and @Packerraymond convo. I agree a guard isn't a necessity but I've seen so many mocks with guys like Risner or Lindstrom at the 30/44+ range. Now mocks are mocks, but if we were to take a guard and had Risner, Lindstrom and Bradbury, I'm taking Bradbury 10/10 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, ReadyToThump said: I see what you're saying and read yours and @Packerraymond convo. I agree a guard isn't a necessity but I've seen so many mocks with guys like Risner or Lindstrom at the 30/44+ range. Now mocks are mocks, but if we were to take a guard and had Risner, Lindstrom and Bradbury, I'm taking Bradbury 10/10 times. Not gonna give Risner a shot on the outside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadyToThump Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Not gonna give Risner a shot on the outside? I absolutely would, I was moreso talking strictly drafting to play guard. Risner is a solid player, don't get me wrong. But I'd feel a lot more confident plugging Bradbury in this O and having instant success than I would Risner at either G or T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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